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View Diary: 5 Dead in New Mexico Shooting (Updated New Info) (52 comments)

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  •  I'm not a gun owner but banning guns (11+ / 0-)

    altogether would be a recipe for disaster in this country--like civil war. There are a lot of responsible gun owners out there, many of whom support reforms to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and head cases.

    That being said, family killings like the one in New Mexico happen every day in the US. I don't know how you prevent that.

    I never liked you and I always will.

    by Ray Blake on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:34:04 PM PST

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    •  It's the work of generations (16+ / 0-)

      This is why there is no easy answer.  Nothing enacted would instantly create a change.   But you have to start changing the culture of expectation around guns.

      Success won't be determined by tomorrow, it will be determined by about 15 years from now and the expectations of the culture.   That's how it works.  

      The NRA has successfully framed the argument that 'none of this impacts' and then trots out the crime statistics of the next 6 months.  That standard will mean all changes will fail.  

      Instead, we have to ask: what changes of expectation and availability occur over the next ten years.  Twenty years.

      If we let them keep framing the debate as they do, then you can never make a case for any change, ever.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:37:20 PM PST

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      •  I said the same thing yesterday. (5+ / 0-)

        The problem I'm worried about is the RWGN saying 6 months after laws are passed, (see, it didn't change anything".  And then the laws are reversed.

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:19:34 PM PST

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      •  The NRA and their supporters in Congress (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splashy, DefendOurConstitution

        forbid the research into gun violence and gun ownership at all levels.  President Obama included research in his measures last week, but I'm sure the Republican House will reduce funding to agencies so they can't carry out studies, just like happened in the 90's.  If we can't do research, we can't say what works and the NRA will continue to say nothing works so pass the ammunition.  There won't be data to refute them, and sadly it's Democrats who want data to back up their positions - Republicans never let a lack of data stop them (and they claim data has a liberal bias so it should be skewed or ignored anyway).

        •  One bone to pick: those are not supporters in (0+ / 0-)

          Congress, they are bought/terrorized into submission so that they are servants of the NRA.

          Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

          by DefendOurConstitution on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 04:54:55 AM PST

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          •  They still support the agenda (0+ / 0-)

            whatever their motivation.  The guy from Texas who has suggested impeaching Obama over his gun proposals isn't bought/terrorized into submission - he's a full-on fan.  There are some who are afraid of primaries financed by opponents, but there are others who have guns in their family (Senator Manchin, Senator Tester) who aren't cowed by the NRA but are members.

    •  So for the last 5 days there have been (9+ / 0-)

      5 families killed.


      And that is going to be 10 families in 5 more days.  But taking away guns is a recipe for disaster.

      Ideas?  Thoughts?

      I wish gun owners would keep their guns, but they come crying to me if the bad guys take it away from them.

      by 88kathy on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:08:47 PM PST

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    •  You prevent it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brit, teacherjon, congenitalefty

      By banning guns.  Pretty straightforward really.  Of course Americans find killings like this a perfectly acceptable cost of policies allowing the country to be awash in guns.  

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 03:25:26 PM PST

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