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View Diary: The three schools of thought regarding guns on Daily Kos. (126 comments)

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  •  @pistolSO: you misrepresented group #1 (2+ / 0-)
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    a2nite, pistolSO

    I'm sure your intentions are good, but your description of those who favor repeal does not fit with my observations.

    I've written some of my thoughts about repealing the Second Amendment (2A), here: http://www.dailykos.com/...  This diary is also linked on most comments I've made since Sandy Hook. You might start with it, before making false generalizations about us. Many other members of (or contributors to) the DailyKos group RASA have offered their thoughts, here: http://www.dailykos.com/... (Click on "Published" to sort in reverse-chron, some of the oldest diaries have a broader focus on repeal of 2A. There are more than 300 diaries, from a wide variety of viewpoints.)
    Among the many great diaries, you might enjoy that of the 80 year-old, ex-Air Force pilot, entrepreneur/ manufacturer/ employer, Myles Spicer, and especially his moving comment, here: http://www.dailykos.com/...

    "At my age (80), I will never see the Second repealed, but we do things for generations behind us. I will always work to make America better in those things I personally value and espouse. This happens to be one."
    Many reasons have been offered for repealing 2A, not just that it is archaic and dangerous, but that it is ambiguous, unclear, foments unnecessary strife, dampens meaningful reforms, weakens the Constitution, distracts us from other pressing matters, etc. etc. etc.

    I would say "repealed or meaningfully amended" -- not severely amended. E.g., some have suggested simply adding four words at the end of 2a: "by the Federal government" -- thereby making gun-control a states-rights issue. Others favor complete repeal.

    I and others emphatically reject that notion that repeal is "so that most of the guns in this country can be made illegal"!!! This is nonsense!!! This is right-wing fear-mongering at its worst, its the line that the black-helicopter, tin-foil hat crowd tries to spread. Ditto with your line: "Generally, their goal is to completely rid America of guns and they want this to happen now or within the next decade" -- that's complete nonsense!! Sure, maybe some of our members feel this way, but certainly not most. (We have a big tent, including many members who own guns and intend to legally keep them, for safety, hunting, gun-clubs, socially, target-practice, collecting, inheritance, investment, etc.)

    decade (which would be the amount of time it would take to get a Constitutional Amendment done).
    My own guess, stated in my diary, is 20-30 years, assuming a ground-swell of support grows, but that's just a guess.
    Some even want to call an Article V Constitution Convention to circumvent Congress (an Article V Convention has never be called in the history of this country).
    "Some" -- that's a Fox News trick. On what basis do you write this? What % of those who favor repeal of 2A support this? As my own diary points out, a convention has never worked. That's an intra-group strategy question the answers to which would emerge over several years.
    Their models of gun laws are Japan and the UK.
    Again, says who? I vaguely recall mention of the UK and Japan, and there were a couple recent diaries describing life there, but even those two didn't suggest these laws are a model for the US. (E.g., most British police still don't carry guns, and I've not seen a single proposal of this for the US.) I've seen more discussion of Australia's laws as a possible model.

    In short, of your description, these parts seem to describe this group reasonably well (for a short paragraph on a complex issue):

    1. The 2nd Amendment Repealers.  Their philosophy is that the 2nd Amendment is...  
    so that the 2nd Amendment has be either completely repealed or amended...  
    Generally, their goal is to ...
    and they want this to happen...    
    Their models of gun laws are...
    We are a big tent and I'm reluctant to try and offer an alternative that speaks on behalf of others, without their input.

    (RASA peeps: will someone create a shared Google Doc for collaborative effort to write e.g. a 100-word mission-statement? E.g., as a start, perhaps: "The 2nd Amendment Repealers. Our philosophy is that the 2nd Amendment has be either completely repealed or amended in order to enact meaningful regulations on guns and gun-violence. Generally, our goal is to reduce gun-violence, and to permit meaningful regulations on guns, at the city, county, state, and/or federal levels. We would like this to happen ASAP, but are also prepared to work for decades. Our models of gun laws are based on the American experience, drawing on other nations, reality, and objective science." That's a bad start, but I'm on work deadlines! :-)  Thanks!)  

    Join us at RASA: Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment. (Repeal will not ban guns, just help regulate them.)

    by Sharon Wraight on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 08:13:11 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks Sharon & please see koNko comments (1+ / 0-)
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      Sharon Wraight

      Below esp towards the end. Repealing the 2nd amendment DOES NOT mean banning guns. That is a severe leap.

    •  I did ask if I got any details wrong (1+ / 0-)
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      Sharon Wraight

      so I welcome the correction.

      I do get the gist that some of RASA want the 2A repealed because they believe that SCOTUS has made effective gun control measures impossible.  But I have read from other Kossacks(and their diaries have been reposted to RASA) that their goal is a near total ban on guns hence the references to the UK and Japan.   I was trying to reconcile those in a general description of the group, but perhaps I was too inaccurate in how I described RASA.

      As to my word choice of severely, I will accept that it wasn't neutral enough in tone.

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/...

      : rigorous in restraint, punishment, or requirement : stringent
      So I should have said stringent.   Meaningful implies the need for the 2nd Amendment to be amended.

      I also accept that I should have qualified that some(meaning less than a majority) of the RASA members want a substantial reduction in the amount of guns personally owned by civilians from now to 20 years from now.

      And I know that oldpotsumggler for one is someone that wants an Article V Convention called.   I probably should have replaced that some with "a minority of members".

      I will close that I do agree that our disagreements are on method and timeframe and degree of to which guns should be restricted.

      Washington and Colorado said that you've got to legalize it. Hope the DOJ respects that.

      by pistolSO on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 01:24:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rec'd for dialogue, which I appreciate. (1+ / 0-)
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        pistolSO

        Thanks for your friendly conversation.

        I do find it interesting that many people somehow associate 2A repeal with a ban on guns (hence my sig-line correcting this misapprehension).

        some of RASA want the 2A repealed because they believe that SCOTUS has made effective gun control measures impossible.
        If I had to guess, I'd say 75%, but that's mere guesswork.
        But I have read from other Kossacks(and their diaries have been reposted to RASA) that their goal is a near total ban on guns hence the references to the UK and Japan.
        I welcome their voice. I'd guess that's at most 15%?
        And I know that [username] for one is someone that wants an Article V Convention called.
        We have over 100 members, I can't speak for any one, nor whether they are floating a trial balloon or making a strong argument on suggested strategy.

        Cheers!

        Join us at RASA: Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment. (Repeal will not ban guns, just help regulate them.)

        by Sharon Wraight on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 02:53:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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