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View Diary: Beware of Tyrants in Sheep's Clothing (215 comments)

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  •  Words. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leftreborn, newfie, RUNDOWN, Laconic Lib, Noddy

    Sanctity, not so much.

    Same with the implication that the comment you were replying to was some kind of insult to said cherished words.

    I swear, the "sacred" idolization of words is almost comical.

    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
    ~ Jerry Garcia

    by DeadHead on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:08:22 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Hasn't it though? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sensetolisten, backell, Noddy, DeadHead

      Why is it that we would have to adhere to one interpretation of words for the rest of existence.  Oh you can't say that it defiles the sacred words. It is too sad to be funny really.

      "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

      by newfie on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 05:37:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Original intent versus living document.

        I fall into the latter category.

        For such an 'immutable' document, it sure has been amended alot.


        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
        ~ Jerry Garcia

        by DeadHead on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:06:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Are you an Anerican? (0+ / 0-)

      Where were you born?

      Where were you raised?

      If those words are not sacred to you, being the very words upon which the United States of America was founded, words that generation after generation have fought to preserve, shed blood sweat and tears to preserve, the sanctity of which being demonstrated by the reverence with which the forefathers of this nation have enshrined them, then clearly you are not from this land.

      You can belittle and dismiss many things, but when you do so of the Decleration of Independence or the US Constitution, then you cross a line, sir. Either we share these enshrined values, or we do not. Clearly you do not.

      Good day, Sir.

      •  When we post our written words here at Kos in a (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib, DeadHead

        diary or a comment, we're offering our ideas for discussion.  We don't generally intend to make ourselves the topic for discussion.

        Communication is improved when the back and forth commentary stays focused on the opinions posted here, not on the people who post them.  

        In a competition of ideas, you don't advance your argument by criticizing and attacking the people who disagree with you. Your point of view should be able to stand on its own merits, if it has any and if you are able to articulate them.  

        It comes down to a choice.  Use your intellect, fluency, persuasiveness, and knowledge to give others something to think about or maybe even change the way that other people think.  Or change the subject so that the writers and commenters become the subject for a lashing when you disagree with them.  That's up to you and you don't win the debate with personal insults, disparaging remarks, derisive comments about the other participants.  

        Asking other participants for any personal information is never a good idea.  There's a difference between public and private information.  

        Let's remember the high ideals and principles of our country's founders and respect the right of everyone to have their own way of looking at things.  We may disagree but we should always remember to defend the right of others to have their own opinions.

        "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

        by leftreborn on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 07:31:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I am not an "Anerican". (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        S F Hippie, DeadHead, luckydog

        But I'll assume you meant "American", and I am an American.

        Yanno, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution with its Amendments are important documents, but they were NOT written by any god I know of, nor were they written by saints, prophets, or others who claim to speak for some deity or other. They were written and signed by human beings, not gods.

        Therefore, while they are important, they are not sacred. They are worthy of respect.

        Your assumption that DeadHead is not American because he doesn't conform to your strict and rigid theocratic view of what makes someone American is unworthy and mean-spirited.

        We do not have to share "enshrined" values because American is NOT a theocracy.

        This is America - we can can hold different views of what's important. Being different, holding different views, expressing our views and concerns in different words is what makes us Americans - working together with, because of, and in spite of, our differences,makes us stronger Americans.

        You need to apologize to DeadHead for questioning his birthright.

        All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

        by Noddy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 11:56:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  :) (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          You and I shall be waiting a long time for that apology, Noddy.

          That's ok, the typo in the original comment will have to suffice. ;)

          Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
          ~ Jerry Garcia

          by DeadHead on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 01:39:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  If you mean American (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        S F Hippie

        and not 'Anerican,' well, I was born in Encino, California, in 1969. I've lived here all 43 of my years.

        Does that qualify? Or do I need to agree with you on everything, first?

         If I have a view that puts less emphasis on words written like, two centuries ago, does that make me a commie or something?

        In rejecting your degree of reverence, do I by default also reject any person who's done the right thing over the course of the country's history, or is it all-or-nothing?

        Just tell me what you want me to believe, so I can believe it.

        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
        ~ Jerry Garcia

        by DeadHead on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:00:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Those were rhetorical questions (0+ / 0-)

          and yeah, with my iPhone my typing is prone to typos: AMERICAN.

          Tell you what I want you to believe? No. Believe whatever you want to believe. But, to me, the Decleration of Independence and the US Constitution memorializes an ideal that is "sacred" to me, and it is "sacred" to me because it inspired and guided our nation to be born, and inspired / guided generations to preserve this nation. Now, if you want to dismiss their importance with cavalier contempt, then you are also dismissing the importance of this nation with cavalier contempt, because those words define who and what this nation is. And again, that is your choice. You dishonor this nation, the founding fathers, and the generations who have shed blood, sweat, and tears building it. Your choice. Now, I don't think you actually do have contempt, and I think you are American through and through, but I also think that your anti-2nd Amendment bias has so colored your opinion, that you are dismissing the importance of those documents because they conflict with your agenda, which is to repeal the 2nd Amendment. It is inconvenient for you that the founding fathers' opinion, and the founding charter /documents are in direct opposition to your agenda. So what do you and your anti-2A friends do? 

          You lie about that history.
          (and when that doesn't work)
          You deny that history. 
          (and when that doesn't work)
          You ignore that history.
          (and when that doesn't work)
          You trivialize that history.
          (and when that doesn't work)
          You attack the people reminding you of that history...

          ...rather than honoring that history. 

          Now, if you don't think that the 2A is needed anymore. Fine! I respect that. I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect it. But, if you trivialize with contempt, what generations have fought to preserve, don't be surprised when this results in people responding to you with contempt.

          I asked you those rhetorical questions not because I didn't think you were American, I asked you those rhetorical questions to remind you what it means to be American. 

          And if you don't know why...

          Federal law requires everyone who enlists or re-enlists in the Armed Forces of the United States to take the enlistment oath. The oath of enlistment into the United States Armed Forces is administered by any commissioned officer to any person enlisting or re-enlisting for a term of service into any branch of the military. The officer asks the person, or persons, to raise their right hand and repeat the oath after him. The oath is traditionally performed in front of the United States Flag and other flags, such as the state flag, military branch flag, and unit guidon may be present.

          In the Armed Forces EXCEPT the National Guard (Army or Air)

          I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

          I am sorry, but no, I don't think I owe you and your friends here an apology. I think you and your friends owe this nation an apology. But I'm not holding my breath. And no, I don't think you're a "commie." Who said anything about communism or socialism? I most certainly did not. And the last time i checked, there is no mention of that in the DOI or USC. So why did you bring it up? For the record, I have no problem with Social Security or Medicare or Obamacare, or any other social welfare programs. I hope we one day have single payer. I think these make our nation stronger. And my mother and father are sure thankful of them. I like capitalism too, for some things, but not all things. And it is prone to corruption, so strong regulatory oversight is necessary for a healthy economy. And I strongly believe that a massive stimulus package is needed right now. Shall I go on? Or do you still think I am a RW wacko just because I happen to think the DOI and the USC memorialize a "scared" ideal. Look, I don't think anything about you other than this: I just don't think you honor this nation's "sacred"!ideals, as memorialized in the DOI and USC. 

          I have nothing more to say to you, Sir. 

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