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View Diary: Watching Our Godly Inauguration (96 comments)

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  •  True, it is not illegal, so that makes it good. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fishtroller01, George Hier

    Maybe we should go back to sacrificing a chicken and examining its entrails to see if it is a propituous time for acting. Running around insulting everybody isn't illegal either, but that doesn't mean that it is proper or beneficial.

    In another sense, it is establishment. If no business can be transacted without first praying to the uber-faery, then we have established uber-faery worship as surely as if we mandated it by law.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 09:48:19 AM PST

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    •  what does 'good' have to do with it? I don't see (2+ / 0-)
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      Kickemout, Wee Mama

      it as good or bad. It is what it is.   It doesn't bother me.  It bothers you.  Fine.

      You can't even make your points without stupid comments like 'uber-faery'.  Perhaps you should think about why you feel the need to be so insulting towards people who might believe things that you don't.

      •  And you might consider the fact that, in this (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        madcitysailor, Burned

        country, with rare exceptions, no government business can occur or transpire unless it is wrapped in a religious ceremony. To avoid the appearance of establishing a particular religion, they generalize it (hence uber-faery instead of this, that or the other specific god).

         The idea that we have a secular government is pure myth, which, in turn, makes it ever so easy for them to spew out endless religion based laws, generally using the majority religion's tenets as the basis.

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 10:36:41 AM PST

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        •  you don't really see FULLY secular governments (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wee Mama

          very often...England is far more secular a society than we are, but they have an established state religion.  It just doesn't really affect anyone all that much because they don't have as many fundamentalist wackjobs like Santorum or Pat Robertson.

          Your perspective is, unfortunately, shaped by our fundamentalists--and I ask you to take a step back and try to recognize that invocation of religion is not oppressive--its' just when it is co-opted by some that the problem arises.  But you're not distinguishing between these two radically different faces of religion.

          •  Wrapping all government activity in a (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            George Hier, Burned

            religious ceremony is indeed oppressive and facilitative of the theocrats and dominionists as well. Hence the rejection of science and the war on women and the GLBT community to name just a couple of effects of the subservience of our government bodies  to neolithic through bronze age revealed truths instead of reason. and empirical evidence.

            It is ever sooo easy to say "oooh,ooooh, oooh, it is only the fundies", but if that is the case, they must be a clear majority in most of the country and at most levels of government.

            In the end, unless I wish to attend a prayer meeting, I cannot participate in local government, but that is, to you "not oppressive",; so tell me, what in the world would be?

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 11:03:15 AM PST

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            •  ok. you find it oppressive. Funny you say that, (0+ / 0-)

              in light of Obama's strong focus of both climate change and GLBT rights in his address.

              If a family invites you to dinner and they might say grace before the meal, what do you do--decline the invitation?  Most of us would just sit quietly, not believing, until they're done.

              Where are you getting 'kicked out of government' for not attending a prayer meeting?

              •  Almost all government is conducted within a (1+ / 0-)
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                splashy

                prayer meeting. Try it some time, city council, state legislature, county boards, etc - the prayer meeting opens the show and nothing can occur without it, and sometimes it concludes it as well. There are a few exceptions, but statistically insignificant.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 11:23:49 AM PST

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                •  it's ceremony. It's cultural. You don't have (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wee Mama

                  to go--you don't have to say anything.  It is a cultural manifestation of the fact that there are a lot of Christians in this country, but it has nothing to do with the 1st amendment or religious freedom.  Fine, if you're in Mississippi maybe you'll be frowned upon if you don't attend, but that's a cultural thing that you have to balance out on your own.

                  I'm Jewish.  Not religious, but Jewish.  If I were a public servant in Mississippi, I'd need to decide whether or not I want to attend ceremonial meetings where they talk about Christ all the time.  I probably would--just like I would put my head down at a table where people are saying grace before a meal.  It's not really oppressive.  I'm not going to try to pretend that Christian cultural norms don't exist in this country--and for me to try to purge them represents the same type of intolerance that we're always advocating against.

                •  Must depend on where you are. I've never seen such (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bevenro

                  prayers at city council meetings in Iowa.



                  Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

                  by Wee Mama on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 01:13:26 PM PST

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              •  Dinner does not equal government (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                enhydra lutris, George Hier

                Government is all of us, dinner is a select group.

                Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

                by splashy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:05:01 PM PST

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            •  I get where you are coming from (2+ / 0-)
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              enhydra lutris, MNGlasnant

              Having been raised in a non-religious way, the fact that almost everything done in our government, along with many other places, is accompanied by some kind of prayer seems to be forcing religion on everyone present.

              If they just had a moment of silence, it would be fine. But, noooo, there has to be a prayer.

              People raised with this being the way things are done don't seem to realize just how coercive it is.

              Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

              by splashy on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:03:39 PM PST

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              •  Privelege is usually invisible to the (0+ / 0-)

                priveleged.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:10:01 PM PST

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                •  So true. eom (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  enhydra lutris

                  Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

                  by splashy on Thu Jan 24, 2013 at 05:34:40 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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