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View Diary: Homicidal mentally ill felon obtains gun permit, arsenal, in Minnesota (324 comments)

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  •  I actually had the same question. (28+ / 0-)

    I was curious about that myself. How does a murderer who was judged insane get out and have no basic oversight like monitoring his Facebook page?

    Not a misdirection for me, kind of an obvious question.

    Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

    by voracious on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 11:04:15 AM PST

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    •  He was 14 when he killed his mother (18+ / 0-)

      And he was civilly committed for a time after he turned 18. He was let out then, not sure why. Minnesota law prevents the place he was civilly committed from giving his name to the BCA without his permission, which is partly how he got the guns. Plus he gave a false name.

    •  They apparently don't know (8+ / 0-)
      Oberender received three years of intensive treatment for his mental illness as a juvenile, but in late 1998 was ordered committed as "mentally ill and dangerous" to the St. Peter state hospital. Mental health professionals wrote in court findings that they believed there was "a substantial likelihood that Oberender will engage in acts capable of inflicting serious physical harm to another." There are apparently no public records of when he was released from St. Peter. In a 2003 interview with the Star Tribune, Oberender said he spent a year in a halfway house after his release and believed he was turning his life around thanks to "all kinds of treatment."
      •  Does Mr. Oberender hear voices, (4+ / 0-)

        suffer hallucinations, see a world that is substantially different from ordinary perceptions ????

        Does he suffer waking nightmares?

        Does he lose track of normal activites, such as personal hygiene ?

        Any three of the five major indicators for paranoid schizophrenia ?

        With a violent background, who THE HELL let him out?

        This is not a curable disease. It is organic, not environmental. Lifelong.

        "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

        by bontemps2012 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 02:25:47 PM PST

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        •  And all too typically, he could present as (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bontemps2012, tobendaro, PinHole

          a really nice guy, just fine. See the co-workers' comment at the end of the Minn Trib article diarist linked to. He was working on setting Phillip up with a date... (The unpassed VAW act is coming to mind.)

          The whole scenario is classic for the problems and coordination of information sharing that needs to be done in a manner that still protects some rights.

          The juvenile offender laws, psych and basic HIPPA are ways the system is full of holes, before the interference from NRA exploited/inspired legislators and citizens. If the background check isn't done in 7 days, you are cleared regardless?  People with a potentially lethal medical diagnosis can wait a month or two to get an appointment with a specialist or for a test.

          Add the usual GOP focus on getting the fat out of government budgets, it further interferes with developing the level of laws, data collection, analysis and communication.  

          "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

          by Ginny in CO on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 06:35:57 PM PST

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          •  Obama is looking to a "time of peace." (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tobendaro, Ginny in CO

            Betcha that frees up resources. Some of it for addressing our insane level of violence.

            Some of it for renewable, no-import-no-balance-of-payment-problems energy.

            Some of it for the deficit.

            Cut DoD and Intel to $400-billion and a whole lot changes.

            "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

            by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 04:07:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  From your keyboard... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Between climate change and that, I am hoping to be well enough to participate some in Obama for Action.

              BTW, did you see the new military plan proposed by Ray Odierno (sp? rank?). He's way up there - think he was the high brass they brought back to deal with NOLA. The proposal is to align different Army units to specific commands, like Africa. The training then includes fairly intense information on the countries, cultures, races, religions, history, etc in the region. When a deployment becomes specific, along with increased military exercises in landscape/urban scenarios of the area; they get another immersion into more specific culture, language, etc. they need to know. Like, thumbs up sign in this culture is an obscene gesture.

              I'm not sure if this kind of training would have stopped the group in Iraq that went out on urban patrols in tanks that had "Jesus killed Mohammad" - in Arabic- on them. I'm willing to hope.

              "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

              by Ginny in CO on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 06:03:29 PM PST

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              •  Anything smaller is better. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Ginny in CO

                We can't afford DoD as it is now.

                Getting language skills has been on the table at DoD since 1967. Stays on the table except for SpecOps.

                Problem, too, is that we need the production and engineering man-hours to build windmills.

                Sending $700-billion a year overseas for oil is unsustainable.

                Our BOP runs $230BB export to $180BB import a month. Bounces around a lot, always negative.

                We cut oil to $350BB a year and suddenly the BOP is not a problem.

                "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

                by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 06:00:05 AM PST

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                •  We need definitely need much smaller + smarter. (0+ / 0-)

                  Have you seen House of War: The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of American Power, by James Caroll?  Along with the 2003 Morris documentary Fog of War, Kinzer's Overthrow! and  Chandrasekaran's Imperial Life In The Emerald City - Inside Iraq's Green Zone, among the great exposures of the stupidity behind almost all of our military and intel activities.

                  The proposal includes or dovetails with the concept that the troops would more frequently be working with in country forces to be improving their skills to neutralize extremists.

                  I've been on the decrease military spending wagon for decades. The stupid part became very evident in Viet Nam, and has since been exposed in almost all the other engagements, not to mention preparations.

                  "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

                  by Ginny in CO on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 01:09:26 PM PST

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    •  How does someone deemed insane obtain guns? Very (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OllieGarkey, Alexandra Lynch

      easily, just go buy one. I'd venture a guess that a good 90% of used guns are not sold at gun stores or shows, the whole damn country is a gun show and has a "gun show loophole".
         About 8- 9 years ago my alcoholic camo wearing NRA asshole neighbor came over to the house carrying this cardboard box, he wanted to "show me something".
         At that particular time not only were my kids home, but two of their friends were here and playing on our computers in the kitchen.
         Mr. NRA asshole, half lit and half wit to boot, proceeds to open the box on my kitchen counter. Whatever semantics you want to claim about "thats not a real AK-47", out comes a AK "look at what I bought".
         One of the kids at the computer had personally witnessed his own brother blown to bits by some asshole waving around a 12 gauge shotgun less than two years prior that supposedly wasn't loaded.
         The kid was terrified, in panic mode.
          I told Mr. Asshole to take his fucking gun home, "oh. it's not loaded, it's not going to hurt you", he's trying to tell this petrified kid who had witnessed his little brothers head literally blown off by some other Mr. Asshole claiming the same shit.
          I went the fuck off, snatched the gun from his staggering, dumb ass, pointed it away from every one, pulled the bolt and guess what, out pops a fucking round...  
          I wanted to beat him to death with his own stupid ass man toy lack of penis compensater but literally shoved his dumbass out of my house and all the way to his own front door, all the while him apologizing profusely. Fuck that. Threw the piece of shit on his driveway and told him in no uncertain terms never to step foot on my place again in life.
          About three weeks later I got this knock on my door, guy whips out a badge identifying himself as BATF, asking about my neighbor. Wanted to know if I could tell if he were home or not, it was hard to tell if you didn't know which vehicles were operable or weren't.
          He wasn't home. The agent asked if I thought he may be dangerous, ect- dangerously stupid, but personally I had no knowledge of him being personally threateningly dangerous.
          Later that day they set up a perimeter around his place and when he came home from work confronted him as he pulled in his driveway before he could get into the house.
          I watched as they pulled 155 guns of all sorts from the house, including full autos, over 20 full autos.
          Seems that a few years prior Mr. Asshole had a domestic disturbance at another residence and had holed himself up in the house in a stand off that lasted most of the day before surrendering but not before threatening to kill anyone who approached the house.
          He was hauled off to a mental health facility and from there, to jail, charged with domestic violence, threats and terrorism charges against LEO's, to name a few.
          Yet he was able to walk into a pawn shop, buy the AK to add to his arsenal and go unnoticed for a few weeks before someone finally caught the mistake, that he wasn't allowed to own guns, period.
          The wife of said Mr. Asshole was a gun dealer, the most prolific in this entire area. Within a few weeks, all of the guns were returned to her and I'll never forget watching all of those very same guns being unloaded from her vehicle and being taken into the house by who? Mr. Asshole himself...
          What a comforting thought living next door to a dumbass drunk who had a felony record of violence and terroristic threats, having had a stand off with SWAT at his last residence and obviously, mentally unstable.
          I was never so glad to see someone get foreclosed upon and forced to move out...
          I never ever underestimate ANY gun toter since that incident, not one. Figure any and every damn one of them can be just as fucked in the head as this asshole was, how would you even know? I don't trust anyone around me with guns, period.

      "It's a dog eat dog world out there, and I am wearing Milkbone underwear." Norm Peterson

      by playtonjr on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 06:54:21 AM PST

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