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View Diary: Homicidal mentally ill felon obtains gun permit, arsenal, in Minnesota (324 comments)

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  •  Why defend the indefensible? (14+ / 0-)

    “Isn't that how the system is supposed to work?” No. No, it’s not.

    Someone who was a) a convicted murderer, and b) adjudicated mentally ill, made 13 retail purchases of firearms. Whereas, Oberender should have been able to purchase 0 firearms. 13-0. That is not a mistake, it’s 13 mistakes. That is a demonstration of repeated failure, not the system working.

    If the system were to be characterized as working, Oberender would have been denied the initial permit to purchase firearms and have been immediately referred for prosecution. Likewise, if the background check system is not robust enough to defeat simple attempts at deception then the system isn’t working.

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    by Joe Bob on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:11:44 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  small note on topic (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      otto, MGross, kyril, Dogs are fuzzy

      person was convicted as a juvie; juvie records are generally sealed.   Should juvenile records be opened?
      Person was in a mental hospital but his medical history is generally not included in background check.  Should a person's medical history be included in background checks?  After all, recent legislation tightened HIPAA instead of weakening it.

      The current system is barred from certain types of information.  Are we as a society willing to open that information to law enforcement agencies?

      •  When they are crazed murderers, yes, open them. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dogs are fuzzy, lyvwyr101

        HIPAA can be adjusted at any time.

        *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

        by glorificus on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 03:34:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  the information (0+ / 0-)

        Oberender is currently in jail being held on a charge of felon in possession of a firearm. Since that’s the case, obviously his records weren’t sealed or stricken. How juvenile records are dealt with varies by state. In Minnesota the record isn’t stricken until the convict turns 28 and the record can still remain on file if a judge orders it so.

        Should juvenile records be opened? If someone shoots his mother in the head with a shotgun at age 14 should he be able to buy a shotgun, no questions asked, just because he turned 18? I am all for youthful offenders getting a second chance but if a teenager commits a violent felony I am perfectly fine with them forever losing their right to possess a gun.    

        Your point about medical records reflects some misunderstandings of current law. The legal standard for losing the right to own a gun is adjudicated mentally ill. Adjudicated mentally ill means a judge commits you to inpatient mental health treatment whether you want it or not.

        Your health records may be evidence in the judicial proceeding, but they are not part of any subsequent background check. All the background check asks is: Were you adjudicated mentally ill? Yes/No. Even if the answer is yes, no one conducting a background check knows anything about anyone’s medical records. They only know the result of a judicial proceeding which is, after all, a public record.

        Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

        by Joe Bob on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 03:41:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was asking the questions based on (0+ / 0-)

          the issues in general and beyond this particular case as solutions to a specific case can have unforeseen consequences on the general issues.
          After all, we have seen a movement in recent years towards treating juveniles. particularly in murder cases as adults so they are sentenced and incarcerated as adults.

          my home state has the distinction of executing a 14 year old in the electric chair.  Maybe we should be careful in addressing perceived solutions to the juvenile system

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