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View Diary: The Week in GunFail News (124 comments)

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  •  Regarding that final item, one of the first... (15+ / 0-)

    ...matters I wrote about as an editorial writer when I first arrived in Los Angeles in the mid-'80s were the three cops who fired more than 50 shots (meaning at least one of them reloaded) at a handcuffed suspect who had escaped their custody and run up an embankment above the road. They didn't hit him once. I bet you're wondering what all those errant bullets did hit since they were being fired at a 30° or so angle uphill, meaning some of them went into the air and came down somewhere else in the city. Somebody's car, house, backyard swingset? Most cops are not marksmen.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 11:12:15 PM PST

    •  It's ok when cops shoot you. (0+ / 0-)

      Your rights aren't actually violated.

      Cops can shoot as much as they want without fear of repercussions or annoying consequences.

      I would argue it's encouraged.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:26:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is sheer nonsense (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dave in Northridge

        Every single police shooting resulting in an injury in the city where I worked was the subject of an internal investigation conducted by experienced investigators, as well as presentation to a Grand Jury, not to mention being dissected in one-second increments by the media in that locale.

        I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

        by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:46:45 AM PST

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        •  OK...you can find the occasional incident (0+ / 0-)

          where a cop did actually get REAL consequences for their shitty actions and I can find 10 - at least - where they just went fucking nuts and JACK FUCKING SHIT happened to them.

          I see your 'internal investigation' and add 1 "standard whitewash'.

          Police and Brutality go together that Peanut Butter and Jelly.

          And that is SPECIFICALLY because they get away with murder.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:10:26 AM PST

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          •  Murder has a very definite meaning in law (0+ / 0-)

            taking a life with premeditation is one aspect, and I am absolutely certain that you will not be able to find an instance where a police officer, with premeditation and without justification, killed someone and was not prosecuted.

            Have you ever spent any time at all observing what a run of the mill police officer does on a normal day? You should.  Contact a local urban department which has a ride-along program and spend a few days/nights watching it up close.  I think your preconceived notions will suffer.

            I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

            by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:32:48 AM PST

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            •  o my lord... (0+ / 0-)

              "and I am absolutely certain that you will not be able to find an instance where a police officer, with premeditation and without justification, killed someone and was not prosecuted."

              Howard Fineman needs to have a chat with Chris Cilizza about Grecian Formula and its effects on punditry

              by memofromturner on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:48:59 AM PST

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              •  You are welcome to try to find one (0+ / 0-)

                Just keep in mind the legal definition of murder.

                I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:03:05 AM PST

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                •  Amoud Diallo (0+ / 0-)

                  Ramarley Graham

                  4 cops killed Katheryn Johnston in Atlanta in 2005 - one of them went to jail.

                  1 out of hundreds ain't bad.

                  I'm just not a cop ass-kisser.

                  The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                  by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:49:01 AM PST

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                  •  Replies (0+ / 0-)

                    Amadou Diallo - the cops involved were prosecuted, tried, and acquitted by a jury;

                    Kathryn Johnston - three cops plead guilty/were convicted, and 3 of the 4 were sentenced to prison;

                    Ramarley Graham - the cop was indicted on Manslaughter 1 and 2, and as far as I can tell, is awaiting trial.

                    0 out of 3 ain't bad...

                    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                    by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:09:27 AM PST

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                    •  Graham was shot for marijuana. (0+ / 0-)

                      And they managed to arrest and charge his brothers and saddle the blame onto them. Not taking responsibility for NYPD's murderous ways.

                      I am ever so happy that bad cops can sometimes have a smidgen of justice applied to them. But we can't overlook that they get off lighter even when they do finally get tagged with their fucking murderous ways.

                      I hope they rot in jail.

                      Now, why are cops so prone to shoot wildly if they are so subject to the same laws we are?

                      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

                      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:21:37 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Let's recap (0+ / 0-)

                        You said:

                        Cops can shoot as much as they want without fear of repercussions or annoying consequences.
                        which I called sheer nonsense, and provided an example of the process that is used in every police shooting in a particular location.

                        To which you replied:

                        And that is SPECIFICALLY because they get away with murder.
                        in response to which I challenged you to find a single instance where a police officer committed murder and was not prosecuted, even provided a definition of murder to help you along.  I also suggested that you spend some time having a look at what a run of the mill cop does on a daily basis so that you just might be able to speak from a point of knowledge.

                        You then gave three examples - none of which involved murder, and in each of which the police officers involved were fully prosecuted.

                        This is the internet.  You can rant, you can rave, you can expose all of your biases for everyone to see.  The one thing you can't do is spout absolute ignorant bullshit and not expected to be called on it.

                        I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                        by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:54:37 PM PST

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                •  do you think you are clever? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  tommymet

                  it's not "legally" "murder" until decided in court, but of course that is plain to all

                  policemen who slay unarmed citizens rarely find their way into court, but we all know that too

                  Howard Fineman needs to have a chat with Chris Cilizza about Grecian Formula and its effects on punditry

                  by memofromturner on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:55:16 AM PST

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                  •  Do you have any understanding (0+ / 0-)

                    of what you are talking about?

                    In order for a homicide to be a murder, it requires any one of a number of factors, the most common of which is premeditation.  Any cop who planned to kill someone, and then did so, would be charged with murder - before any court proceedings are commenced.  There are other levels of homicide which have different requirements, and those are often charged in police shootings - witness the cases that the other commenter posted.

                    All police shootings are homicides, but that does not make them murders, nor does it even make them illegal.

                    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                    by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:01:27 PM PST

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                •  Try this one (0+ / 0-)

                  Malik Jones shot to death by East Haven, CT police officer Robert Floodquist.

                  In 1997, Malik Jones was stopped by police officers in East Haven. He led police on a chase to New Haven where East Haven officer Robert Flodquist smashed the glass of Jones’ car and shot him several times at close range. At the time, Flodquist said Jones had given him a “go to hell” look.

                  The state's attorney declined to pursue charges against officer Floodquist.

                  Case law in the family's wrongful death suit is here

                  "Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

                  by Sonofasailor on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:59:22 PM PST

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                  •  Did you forget to mention a few facts? (0+ / 0-)

                    Particularly the one where Malik Jones was said to have been trying to run down Flodquist with his car when he was shot?

                    Yes, there was a different versions as to when the first shot was fired - before or after the vehicle was in motion - and whether 4 or 5 shots were fired, but it was clear from the forensic evidence that 4 shots entered the vehicle and that they were fired after the car was in motion.

                    The case was investigated by the police department, the District Attorney's office, and the state (presumably the State Police although it doesn't say that specifically) and all of them came to the same conclusion: that there was no evidence which contradicted Flodquist's claim of justification.  If they had, I think he would have been charged with either manslaughter or negligent homicide, and prosecuted.

                    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

                    by Wayward Wind on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 10:02:35 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Not exactly forgetting to mention anything (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tommymet

                      I put the case law up for the express purpose of making the facts available to anyone interested. So I'm calling your bullshit on that!

                      There are plenty of facts out there in police reports, news coverage and court transcripts if you care to invest the time researching them. I suggest you do as you need to know more of them before you can arrive at an informed conclusion.

                      The state did not submit any evidence in the wrongful death trial, citing it as inconclusive. What was inconclusive was that renowned Chief Criminalist Dr. Henry Lee could not reconstruct the incident in the manner the police described it happening. A jury heard the evidence and found the Town of East Haven was responsible for the wrongful death of Malik Jones. They awarded Jones' family $900,000 in damages which was later overturned on a technicality at appeal. That decision is awaiting further judicial review.

                      Perhaps in the eyes of the law, when facts are not clear and disputed by inconsistencies, the benefit of the doubt favors the law and not the victim as in this case.

                      The unanswered question here is how an unarmed young man was shot to death over an alleged non working tail light on his car is not a crime. This is the reason officer Floodquist citied for engaging in pursuit of a traffic stop. He then ignored East Haven Police Department's high speed pursuit policy by not ending his pursuit in favor of the local jurisdiction when Jones' car entered the city limits of the City of New Haven. He then walks up to the car, smashes the window and fires 4 or 5 shots into the unarmed driver's chest because he felt his life was being threatened? The pursuit was illegal and the force used was clearly excessive, yet no charges were filed by the state's attorney. Why not give officer Floodquist his day in court and let a jury of his peers decide the facts.

                      I suppose you will say Jones shouldn't have run from the cops if he didn't have anything to fear. Right? Well that's a related story and I imagine you read about EHPD's brutal racist history of mistreating people of color. The DOJ is looking into that and federal charges have been filed against several officers, with a few guilty pleas entered. Given EHPD's reputation for making it known dark skin is not welcome there, I may have done the same thing if I was Malik Jones and I saw the lights in my rearview mirror with the much more civil minded jurisdiction of the New Haven PD a small fraction of a mile ahead of me.

                      "Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

                      by Sonofasailor on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 08:11:16 AM PST

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            •  Oh god no - you'll NEVER find a cop getting (0+ / 0-)

              away with murder.

              They won't even be charged with it.

              Cops hurt more people needlessly again

              Meanwhile cops kick and stomp man they tasered

              Cops are so misunderstood.....

              The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

              by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:55:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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