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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: A new foreign policy in the offing? (126 comments)

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  •  So -- how many years have we been trying to (6+ / 0-)

    resolve our differences with Iran and North Korea peacefully?

    Turning enemies into friends is a good thing and is, to my knowledge, completely uncontroversial.

    The hard question is this: what do you do when they won't turn?

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 08:43:38 PM PST

    •  Two totally different challenges (6+ / 0-)

      Who knows how our relationship with Iran would have evolved if we hadn't used our power and played them the way we did?

      N. Korea is in an isolation bubble from the world with only little feelers into China. We can't and don't want to make friends with that family of nutballs, we just don't want 'em screwing around with S. Korea.

      We aren't actively engaged with them. We just have a bunch of soldiers giving them the hairy eyeball.

      Time will tell on both of them.

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 08:51:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Europeans don't seem to be making much headway (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Pat, Jeff Y, high uintas

        either.

        Whatever the ultimate cause, Iran seems to be a perpetual game of chicken.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 09:08:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, went to bed after I commented (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dinotrac

          Europe was as involved in the Shah's misdeeds as we were, there really is a way forward but it isn't through the current power in Iran. The Mullahs and I'vegotadinnerjacket will hold on through fear and intimidation for as long as they can.

          If you ever get a chance to see Rich Steve's trip to Iran before the green revolution you will see just how much most of the people just want normal relations.

          "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

          by high uintas on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 09:19:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The leaders have a substantial power base in the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            high uintas

            less cosmopolitan parts of the country, and that keeps them in place.

            I have not doubt that major segments of the Iranian population would love to normalize relations with the world and get on with their lives.

            They, unfortunately, are not the people running things.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 09:32:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Iran has been an enemy for 33+ years (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        high uintas

        and if anything it has been getting more hostile recently.

    •  North Korea is China's problem... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac, Jeff Y, koNko

      But I think Iran was "coming out of the cold" before Bush started spouting off about the new Axis of Evil, and for whatever reason listed Iran.  

      Also "peacefully" deserves to be in air quotes in regards to Iran at least.  I mean if the US still can't move of with Cuba over the Cuban Missile crisis, how can the US expect Iran to move on from the Shah support?

      First official act of Kerry, I'd like to see him head to Iran, or at least mean with Iran at a neutral location.  And then head to Russia.  At the same time I'd have Hagel's first trip as SecDef head to Israel.  Iran is more isolated with Syria in civil war and Assad sure to fall.  Of course they still have absolute Russian support.  

      I think Pres Obama is going to put the next four years focus on the Middle East and Israel-Palestine, and that will never get solved as long as Iran is using Hamas and Hezbollah as proxy fighters and Israel keeps black op killing Iranian scientists and sabotaging sites.  

      "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness" -Annie Savoy (Bull Durham)

      by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 09:04:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sometimes it's OK to tilt at Windmills, if (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Pat, Jeff Y, Lying eyes

        only for the hope of a surprise.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 09:11:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Are you kidding??? (0+ / 0-)

        The problem with Cuba isn't the US. It is Cuba! It is still a totalitarian state that denies its citizens basic freedoms, such as the ability to travel. The ruling regime there knows that it is history if its citizens realize what the rest of the world is like.

        •  US helps to keep it that way. (0+ / 0-)

          How is that isolation thingy working-out, verses the engagement with other former foes that we're far more threatening?

          US policy toward Cube is incomprehensible to on-lookers.

          Nutty policy.

          What about my Daughter's future?

          by koNko on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 02:59:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Don't expect progress on Israel-Palestine (0+ / 0-)

        Hamas and Hezbollah aren't going anywhere. And the Israeli public will express its frustration with that fact in tomorrow's election. The Israeli Left is going to get a (well deserved) defeat.

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