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View Diary: Secretary Clinton maintains diplomatic composure in face of posturing by McCain, Johnson and Paul (209 comments)

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  •  She'll probably get the nomination (1+ / 0-)
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    But she is to the right of Obama.  She's a hawk.  Can't afford hawks in an era when a dollar going to defense is a dollar subtracted from the safety net.

    •  She's MORE of a hawk than Obama? (1+ / 0-)
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      Seriously? What makes you think that?

      •  Her vote for Iraq for one (2+ / 0-)
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        TomP, mikejay611

        I've never seen her as a dove at all.  I'd guess she'd be more eager to go into Iran than he would.  

        •  I've never seen Obama as a dove, either (1+ / 0-)
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          They seem about the same to me, honestly. Obama was not a member of the US legislature when the Iraq war started, so we have nothing to compare there. Your speculations about who would be more willing to go into Iran are simply laughable, it's guesswork. What we do know is that Obama RAN on a platform of putting more troops into Afghanistan, and since being elected, he has done just that, quadrupling the number of troops in the country. Let us not forget that he has presided over the expansion of drone warfare, and engaging in military adventures in quite a few countries we are not even at war with.

          Obama is a hawk. Deal with it.

          •  Oh, I'm not saying he's a dove either (0+ / 0-)

            and I also know he didn't have to make the tough vote on Iraq.  I don't think he wants war with Iran though.  

            I do think that we're going to have make a choice between guns and butter because this deficit stuff isn't going away and if the Democratic Party doesn't find a spine it will inevitably be guns.  I'm not sure there's anyone out there with the guts to face down the MIC.   Maybe Hillary would have the stature to do that.  But would she?

            •  How ELSE is she "to the right of Obama?" (0+ / 0-)

              I'm quite curious as to what sort of evidence you used to arrive at this, your stated position. Now that we have ruled out foreign policy, you must feel that Obama is left of Hillary on domestic issues.  So, what makes you think that?

              •  no problem: (0+ / 0-)

                * union busting Walmart Board member

                * supported NAFTA

                * Israel & Palestine

                * domestic drug policy

                I am sure I could come up with more and details.  But this is the gist of it.

                •  Not much of a list (0+ / 0-)

                  That list proves, well, nothing. It isn't a proper comparison. It's just a disconnected series of words.

                  Obama is in no way pro union. Ask Laura Clawson or any other pro union Kossack whether he has been good for unions. He hasn't, but we'll call this a tossup.

                  Has Obama repealed NAFTA? No? Are more free trade agreements moving forward under Obama? Yes? Another tossup.

                  You need to do more than mention two countries' names here. And I thought we were talking domestic issues?

                  Again, simply saying "Domestic drug policy" without context means nothing. What policies? And, seriously, has Obama started allowing importation of lower cost drugs? Has he forced the government to negotiate with drug companies for lower prices? No?

                  You really don't know how to argue very well. I mean, it feels as though you aren't really trying. I don't know why you even bothered to write this, days later.

        •  Yes, that is my biggest concern about her. (1+ / 0-)
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          It also was in 08.  On domestic issues, she and Obama are relatively close.  Obama has been hawkish at times (Afghanistan buildup, drones), but I feel she is more hawkish.  

          Like I said, I'm keeping an open mind for now.  She's no George Bush and her hawkish tendencies may be lkess important in 2016, or may be overdrawn.  We'll see.  

          Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

          by TomP on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 11:53:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  WRONG! (3+ / 0-)
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          SethRightmer, CrissieP, Meteor Blades

          On S.759, a bill authored by Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) which prohibited any attacks on Iran without explicit Congressional approval, there were three - count them, three - cosponsors.

          Guess who one was?

          Sen. Hillary Rodhan Clinton (D-NY).

          And guess who one wasn't?

          Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL).

          The bill was unquestionably designed to make it harder to charge into Iran without an extended debate, Clinton backed it and Obama did not - both were serving Senators at the time. Therefore, Clinton, ipso facto, is not going to be "more likely" to go into Iran than Obama would. It died in committee, but that's beside the point.

      •  No, she's about the same as Obama (3+ / 0-)
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        SethRightmer, Meteor Blades, TomP

        on foreign policy.

        OTOH, on domestic policy, social issues, etc.  she's much more liberal.  I think she would be fine, as would quite a few other Dem women.

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:22:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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