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View Diary: Gun-trafficking case in Charlotte may have exposed loopholes in gun laws (129 comments)

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  •  You lost me at the "confiscation scheme". (5+ / 0-)

    We can't have a serious conversation about this issue if you keep going to something that is simply not going to happen as long as the Constitution stands.  The 2nd Amendment isn't going away and the Supreme Court has affirmed that fact.  The Supreme Court also affirmed the right of the state to place reasonable restrictions on ownership.  You can understand and accept that responsibility and participate in an earnest attempt at striking a better balance, or you can play inflammatory games ginning up fear that some drone is going to come and attack you if the government finds out you have a gun at your house.

    Obama is no Ataturk.  DiFi isn't going to succeed for a whole host of reasons. And if you really are so concerned about anonymous gun ownership, I'd get off of the Internet, if I were you.

    •  Confiscation AND attrition. (1+ / 0-)
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      oldpunk

      And are you arguing that the Constitution prevents the confiscation of any firearm?  If so, that's a move in the right direction.  Freezing the market for new buyers and relying on attrition is equally offensive; I draw a distinction between that out of politeness, not out of any serious attempt to draw a new category.

      "Reasonable restriction" appears nowhere in the decision for Heller.  I believe you're referring to this blockquote:

      Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.  It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any   manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment   or state analogues.  The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast  doubt on longstanding prohibitions  on the possession of firearms by  felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or   laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of   arms.  Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those   “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition  of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.   Pp. 54–56.
      No one will disagree that the Second Amendment is limited, just like every other enumerated right.  But the specific tests and/or standards of scrutiny that must be applied is an issue that has not been addressed by the Courts.  Obviously, I would prefer the strictest standard of scrutiny possible for determining "reasonableness" (which comes with the presumption in favor of the right).  It may turn out to be a lesser standard than that.  And I would also concede that certain schemes, including a universal registry, would pass constitutional muster under intermediate scrutiny.  However, I'm also in favor of taking proactive, statutory steps to preserve rights.  In this case, I have an alternative to a registry that serves the same purpose and achieves the same results.  Under strict scrutiny, a registry would be tossed out immediately because of the presence of such an alternative.  However, it would be far better for us just to agree to use the least invasive measure that gets the job done.
    •  I know Obama's no Ataturk. (0+ / 0-)

      And I know Senator Feinstein's effort is going to fail.  But if this is cover just to sneak in a registry, I should warn you that effort will also fail.  So the question is what do you want to do?  Is your objective the registry, or the reduction in gun violence you hope to gain by tracking firearms transfers.

      I'm not concerned with being outed as a gun owner.  I'm concerned with government agencies keeping tabs on precisely what I own and where without cause. And not for any doomsday prepper reason, but because I want a firewall against official acts of discrimination.

      •  Your firewall was erradicated (3+ / 0-)

        during the Bush era - and the worst part is that the way things are done now - in secret without any government accountability - they can make shit up about you, me or anyone else without consequence.  It is really too bad that the NRA didn't join the fight against warrantless wiretapping or help to devise reasonable measures to prevent gun sales to terrorists.  Instead, we are all caught in this bullshit dragnet and that's largely because the government and law enforcement can make the claim that the door is basically wide open to criminals and terrorists under the current rules.

        The people who threaten your gun rights the most are the criminals, madmen and terrorists.  Focus on figuring out how to isolate them and you're going to find your rights to be much more secure and under far less scrutiny.

        Suggesting that school children be indoctrinated through the public school system with gun-love isn't helping your case, either.  That will sound creepy to a lot of people.  If you want to open a kids' gun school, that's your deal and that of the parents' of the kids, but government programs like that evoke certain historical imagery for some of us - and for others its just not what they want their kids learning in school.

        •  It's a shame there's such a cultural gulf (0+ / 0-)

          on this issue.  We're at the point where we're now arguing personal perceptions and taste, which isn't doing anything to further the discussion on what to do about gun violence.  I'd just point out that it's not written in stone that gun owners are doomed to be stigmatized, or that a healthy culture that appreciates firearms can't return to its apex.  Beyond that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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