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  •  Well, at least the laugh track (5+ / 0-)

    was timed to ridicule the point.

    The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

    by psnyder on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:53:15 PM PST

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    •  No, I get it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      psnyder, lyvwyr101

      What do you think all the people voting for Nixon and Reagan were thinking when the man who was voicing their opinion was being ridiculed and mocked constantly.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:02:46 PM PST

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      •  That was from 1973 - Republicans weren't as crazy (9+ / 0-)

        back then.

        Also, Democrats had the spine and sense of the national interest to impeach a president who broke the law.

        •  Yeah, the beginning of Republican rule (4+ / 0-)

          Archie Bunker and his thinking had a hell of a lot more power after 1973 than Meathead and his.  And I'd say your average Tea Partier was watching this show at a formative age.

          There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

          by slothlax on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:03:53 PM PST

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          •  Nixon was more liberal than Obama (11+ / 0-)

            The Right only started organizing into its present shape under Carter.

            Sure, Nixon's team invented the Southern Strategy, which is what Republicans used to get into the White House from then on. But the rightward shift of the country began under Reagan, not Nixon.

            Nixon said "We're all Keynesians now", wanted to introduce a negative income tax, and created the EPA (and the DEA, unfortunately, but some liberals still support the war on drugs, so that was not necessarily a right-wing thing).

            •  The fact that Obama is more conservative... (3+ / 0-)

              proves my point.  Nixon used Bunker to lay the foundation for four decades of GOP and conservative Democratic White Houses.  Four years after the triumph of Lyndon Johnson and the Great Society, forty years since the last conservative occupied the White House.  Nixon was the beginning of the end of the liberal order, so of course he was more liberal.  Obama is the beginning of the end of the conservative order, so of course he is more conservative.

              At least that's what I hope.

              There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

              by slothlax on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:58:29 PM PST

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              •  I am agnostic as to whether Obama is the end... (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueoasis, lyvwyr101, liberte, PSzymeczek

                of the conservative order. Anyway, presidents, including Reagan, act as symbols of historical forces much larger than they are. (I think Tolstoy had something to say about that.)

                As for Archie Bunker, the fact remains that in the 1970s, you had a show, All in the Family, which every week made the same joke over and over, that "conservatives" are nothing but hating idiots. Obviously, such a network TV program is not possible today, although it would be more relevant than ever.

                The change started in the second or third year of Reagan's presidency. It was then that the media started treating right wing points of view seriously, no matter how crazy they obviously were.

                •  I think you are missing my point (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  FrankRose, lyvwyr101

                  I'm agnostic about the future too, I was just making a hopeful assertion.

                  But I see the media as a lagging indicator here.  Sure, the media was making fun of conservatives in the 70s.  But who were the voters who put Nixon and Reagan in office?  And a middle of the road Democrat?  The people who were pissed at the way Bunker was taken apart week after week on national television.  They were the "silent majority" of Nixon and the Reagan Democrats.  The underlying culture was more in tune with Archie Bunker than the people making the show realized.  They thought he was the end of Goldwater kookery, but he was really the backbone of the conservative ascendency that followed.  Archie Bunker got the last laugh.

                  There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

                  by slothlax on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 10:02:31 PM PST

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        •  Dems then were also not the dems of today (5+ / 0-)

          A lot of "conservatives" were, DIXIEcrats.

          By today's standards, the Dems did not come out of the 60s smelling of roses. But it was successful to be racist so Nixon, of course, crystallized what had been an unconscious success and turned it into an conscious political strategy.

          Archie Bunker was PROBABLY a Democrat. He was a dock foreman in a unionized shop. Understand that and you understand the world as it really was back then.

          The hippies belonged to neither party. In fact, they didn't want to get involved in politics at all, they just wanted the war to end and to be left alone to pursue their own happiness (i.e., "their own thing.") (Not being snarky...I am typing from living memory here.)

          Keep in mind that Rove is a contemporary of the hippies, as is Grover, and some other key players in the Republican party these days. They were not "dropping out" or "dropping in." No, they were looking for ways to increase their own power and to do that they fastened themselves to the Republican party, took all the lessons from Dixiecrats that they could, and then began to turn "Liberal" into a bad word most often associated with Hippies. And THAT is where Norman Lear hurt us a bit. He made hippies look stupid, ineffective, and often unlikeable...guys like Rove saw it and ran with it.

          Ironically, a lot of hippies turned out to be pretty successful in non-hippy careers but unless that success came from a health food or tarot shop, they pretty much shut up about their own time as a hippy. (I am talking in the midwest here...coastal cultures may vary somewhat.)

        •  so true (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Alexandre, lyvwyr101

          Archie Bunker was extreme back then - 40 years later that's the normal argument from the NRA.  

    •  It was a live audience that got the joke... (11+ / 0-)

      they didn't use a laugh track on that show.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -- John Kenneth Galbraith

      by richardak on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:04:56 PM PST

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