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View Diary: Wingnuts claim "Obama EPA Kills Power Plant, 3,900 Jobs in Texas" (23 comments)

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  •  It's the free market at work (5+ / 0-)

    The cheaper fuel won out - for now.

    Unfortunately, that cheap natural gas is also making it tough on wind & solar. But building gas plants isn't exactly free either, and Texas has plenty of wind and solar resources - if only there was a renewable energy requirement there.

    Filibuster reform now. No more Gentleman's agreements.

    by bear83 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:19:27 PM PST

    •  True, but as dangerous as fracking is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walkshills, skohayes

      gas burns much much cleaner than coal.

      And there is no Mountain Top Removal in fracking.

      "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

      by shrike on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:24:50 PM PST

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      •  No mountain top removal for Texas coal (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        walkshills

        We are a little light on mountains, and the coal we do have is in a pretty flat part of the state.

        Disclaimer: If the above comment can possibly be construed as snark, it probably is.

        by grubber on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:50:06 PM PST

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        •  I Live In Southern IL. We Got A Ton Of Coal (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          walkshills

          and you hit on the problem. We don't have any moutains here in Southern IL like you in Texas. This is overstating it just a little, but pretty much you don't even know the mining of coal is happening here.

          When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

          by webranding on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:56:07 PM PST

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      •  The problem with fracking is that (0+ / 0-)

        about 7% of NG is estimaged to escape into the atmosphere - and what with methane being a 20x more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, it's actually worse for global climate change.

        NG probably has somewhat less mercury and radioisotopes, however . . ..  

    •  Yes It Is. My Parents Live Right Near (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      David54, walkshills

      the Gibson Generating Station. I beg you to read this link. It is the third largest coal fired power plant in the world and the largest in the US.

      They have their own railroad to bring coal to it. 24/7. Non-stop. If there was a lot of natural gas they'd run off that. But alas we mine coal where in southern IL/IN so that is what it runs off of.

      When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

      by webranding on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:51:58 PM PST

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      •  I Got To Add This (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        walkshills
        Also on the grounds of the facility is a 3,000 acres (1,200 ha) large man-made lake called Gibson Lake which is used as a cooling pond for the plant.
        It is right there to see.

        When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

        by webranding on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:54:13 PM PST

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    •  Texas wind > any other state's wind + solar (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      walkshills, skohayes, bear83, Sparhawk

      Texas has 11 GW of installed wind. California is #2 with 4.5 GW wind and 1.5 GW solar.

      There is a state renewable energy requirement, but market forces have driven Texas to blow past the 2025 levels already (though they are short on the solar carveout.)

      Disclaimer: If the above comment can possibly be construed as snark, it probably is.

      by grubber on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:10:53 PM PST

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      •  Texas generates 25% (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bear83

        of it's power from wind turbines, more than any other state.
        Between that and the lower price of natural gas, there is no need for dirty coal.
        Let's hope Kansas does the same thing, as there is a company wanting to build two coal plants here, and then sell the power to other states. They were going to sell to Texas, but now Texas doesn't need it, so they're trying to work something out with Nebraska and Colorado.
        At the same time, thanks to Obama and the EPA, it's becoming less and less economically viable to build a coal plant, and this thing might just die out by itself:

        If a plant is not in construction by April 2013, federal regulations require technology that captures and stores carbon emissions. Only one plant is using that technology and it’s still experimental, said Christine Tezak, managing director of Clear View Energy Partners LLC, a research and consulting firm for industry and its money managers.

        Sunflower and a handful of other utilities have sued the federal government over those rules. A decision is expected early next year.

        But even if Sunflower wins both its state and federal cases, it still must find financing. The cost of complying with mercury and carbon regulations could add significantly to the cost. In 2009 the estimated cost to build the Sunflower plant was $2.2 billion to $3 billion.

        Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/...

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 04:47:57 AM PST

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        •  Umm, according to Wikipedia (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes

          Texas generates about 7% of it's ELECTRICITY (or probably about 2 or 3% of it's "power") from wind.

          link

          so if you think it's 25%, you ought to go fix that.

          •  That could be right (0+ / 0-)

            I read several articles about Texas wind farms a couple of months ago when I was doing some research on Kansas wind farms. No doubt I got some numbers crossed up.
            I live near the Texas Panhandle and they've put thousands of wind turbines up in the last ten years. It's truly amazing.
            Thanks for the correction.

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 02:34:01 PM PST

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    •  Congress is making it hard on wind and solar. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83

      Nat gas, (if it can be extracted and distributed safely) actually facilitates the other, because the wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine and you need a supplement.
      Coal plants have to be enormous and running 24/7 in order to meet the bottom line, nat gas is much more flexible.
      It's great unless you can't solve the extraction and distribution problems.

      You can't make this stuff up.

      by David54 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:20:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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