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View Diary: Newtown first responders speak. (376 comments)

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  •  RFK - automatic weapons have been heavily (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Spider Jerusalem

    regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 09:22:00 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  "Heavily" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      polecat, RFK Lives, lyvwyr101

      is apparently a matter of some interpretation. Many would argue not nearly heavily enough based on the wide and easy access to this kind of weaponry that exists today. Supposedly the Bushmaster Adam Lanza used wasn't even covered by the Connecticut State AWB which specifically proscribes "Bushmaster" in its language. So much for "heavy" regulation...

      •  mrb - the Bushmaster isn't an automatic weapon (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose

        The difference is clear. An automatic weapon will continue to fire automatically as long as you hold down the trigger until the magazine is empty. Those weapons are heavily regulated and the process required to purchase one is long and expensive. A semi-automatic weapon requires that you pull the trigger for each shot fired. It fires one round at a time.

        For those who contend that there is no real difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons, as someone who has been on both sides of automatic weapons fire that view is nonsensical.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 10:22:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ask a surviving family member (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          devis1, lyvwyr101

          of a spree shooting by semi-automatic weapon if that's a distinction they find meaningful. Pulling a trigger 30 times may seem like an onerous burden to someone who likes to get sweaty on the rifle range for hours at a time, but people who do not travel in gun circles couldn't give a shit if their kid or their parent or their sibling are killed by an automatic or semi-automatic. And if you read the language of the CT AWB you'll see it states:

          (1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol;
    •  Does that really matter? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lyvwyr101

      At this point, the difference doesn't really matter.

      The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

      by Back In Blue on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 10:00:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not heavily enough (banned). I'll take severe (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, lyvwyr101

      restrictions that don't include bans, though: 1) minimum license-to-own requirements that include training and annual or more frequent re-certification; 2) insurance/similar "mass casualty" fund contribution requirements; 3) maximum magazine/cartidge/other container capacity (3-5 rounds); 4) others TBD.

      And don't fucking nitpick over the difference between "automatic" and "semi-automatic." Advancing such an argument is a childish, petty attempt at distraction and demonstrates severe intellectual dishonesty coupled with an active disinterest in having an adult conversation on the matter.

      •  Justin - automatic v semi-automatic weapons (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose, just another vet

        As someone who has been on both sides of automatic weapons fire I can assure you that there is no "intellectual dishonesty" to declare the difference is dramatic. That's just a fact.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 10:24:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, in this context the difference is an attempt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lyvwyr101

          at distraction by engaging in a fallacy around arguing semantics.

          And don't pull this "I've been under fire" shit. That's just a bunch of chest-thumping and a fallacious appeal to authority. Besides that, I guarantee you aren't the only one in this conversation who has been fired at, or fired at others. In the context of this discussion it doesn't matter.

          •  Justin - my only point is that when people (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose, just another vet

            are discussing new elements of legislation regarding gun control it is important that they use the correct terms. If someone is arguing for more automatic weapons control, and those are already controlled by the National Firearms Act of 1934, it is important that they know that so they can argue effectively for something that has not already been accomplished.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 10:53:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, your point is to devolve into a semantics game (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lyvwyr101

              and gun knowledge pissing match. Nobody gives a shit about your petty hyperfocus on semantics but you and other gun fetishists.

              •  Justin - as someone who has never owned a gun (0+ / 0-)

                or belonged to the NRA, or any other gun, hunting or shooting group it would be difficult to label me as someone who has a "gun fetish". I have no desire or need to own a gun, but respect those who feel they should. In addition, it's hard to have a conversation about gun control if people can't learn simple, factual, definitions.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 12:56:35 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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