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View Diary: Obama's Immigration plan devastating to U.S. job seekers (216 comments)

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  •  Missing the point (4+ / 0-)

    If these immigrants become citizens, they can have greater protections and avoid the exploitation that comes with "living in the shadows". That's the point. Plus, immigrants can join and strengthen the labor movement.

    The civil rights, gay rights and women's movements, designed to allow others to reach for power previously grasped only by white men, have made a real difference, and the outlines of 21st century America have emerged. -- Paul West of LA Times

    by LiberalLady on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 10:58:55 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You call this protection: (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alain2112, kurt, bear83, Mannie, Chi

      United States Department of Labor Strategic Plan
      Fiiscal Years 2006--2011

      H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced
      from the job in favor of the foreign worker.

      Additionally, the importation of the foreign worker will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of U.S. workers.

      •  That's not what you had in the diary (4+ / 0-)

        indeed, your "troubling proposal" of giving STEM workers a green card "stapled" to their diploma DOES provide them with protection against exploitative employers - it puts them on a level playing field with US workers.

        I would think that you would think that that is a good thing.

        •  I would be all for it if it was limited (0+ / 0-)

          to the top 10% of the graduating class of a research university.

          Diploma mills such as Phoenix University and other for profit universities are salivating at the windfall they will get at the expense of the U.S. labor force.

      •  Source and context? (0+ / 0-)

        Is that statement prescriptive (they are allowed to do this) or descriptive (this sort of thing can happen under current regulations)?

        "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

        by Catte Nappe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:07:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  You are missing the point. (8+ / 0-)

      From Beryl Benderley's article "The Real Science Gap" published in Miller-McCune, June 14, 2010:

      Harvard economist George Borjas has documented* that an influx of Ph.D.s from abroad reduces incomes of all comparable doctorates. Although some people argue that advanced education assures good career prospects, “the supply-demand textbook model is correct after all,” Borjas says. It turns out to work as powerfully on molecular biologists and computer programmers as on gardeners and baby sitters.

      The director of postdoctoral affairs at one stellar university, who requested anonymity to avoid career repercussions, puts it more acidly. The main difference between postdocs and migrant agricultural laborers, he jokes, is that the Ph.D.s don’t pick fruit.

      * Immigration in High-Skill Labor Markets:
      The Impact of Foreign Students on the Earnings of Doctorates
      George J. Borjas is the Robert W. Scrivner Professor of Economics and Social Policy at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, and a research associate of the National Bureau of Economic Research. From the Summary section:
      "For example, the wage that could be earned by native postdoctoral workers employed in research biology labs is much lower than it would have been in the absence of the immigrant influx, perhaps motivating bright U.S.-born undergraduates to pursue professional occupations that have not been targeted by immigration. The low wage paid to postdoctoral workers in these biology labs, however, still offers a very attractive oppor- tunity when contrasted to the compensation available in other countries, so that the incentives for even more foreign students to enter the United States are not greatly reduced. In a sense, there is a potential vicious cycle where the incentives of research labs to offer low wages to their workers barely affect the supply of foreign doctorates, but have a substantial impact on the career decisions of native workers. In the resulting equilibrium, research labs find that they must keep recruiting from abroad because of the assumption that natives do not want to do the type of work that immigrants do. Although we do not yet know the magnitude of the supply elas- ticities that determine inter-field migration flows, the wage effects of large- scale immigration into some doctoral fields are very large and would be expected to be a crucial factor in labor supply decisions."
      (From Wikipedia: "Miller-McCune [now Pacific Standard] magazine was launched in 2008 by Sara Miller McCune, the founder and head of SAGE Publications. It was named one of the year's "hottest launches" by MIN magazine[2] and the following year received the same honor from Library Journal. It also received the 2008-2009 Society of Environmental Journalists Award for Outstanding Explanatory Journalism and the Utne Reader Independent Press Award 2009 for science/technology coverage.")
      •  Thank you (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IT Professional, nchristine, Chi, kurt

        Having worked as the secretary arranging hires of these post-docs, I can verify everything in that article.  The base wage, without medical insurance of any kind, for Ph.D. scientists was 20% less than my wage as a secretary and 50% less than that of the bachelor's-degree laboratory specialists.   No American could afford to work for that, so we had no Americans in those positions.  Our foreign post-docs were rarely literate in English and their educations were severely sub-standard by American standards.  No one would have hired them if qualified Americans could be had to work FOR THE SAME LOUSY WAGES.  Their salaries were equivalent to that of the high-school-educated laboratory dishwasher, only they didn't get benefits.
         

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