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View Diary: Senate witness says women need 'scary-looking' guns to defend themselves (212 comments)

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  •  That was bizarre, but a question (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    True North, mungley, CA wildwoman

    The NRA is now arguing that there are laws on the books but not being enforced.  I know about the Tiahrt Amendment, but the claim is about something different.

    An example given is tens of thousands of felons failing background checks and then not being prosecuted.  Is this true or false?  And if it is true, why are they not being prosecuted?  Lack of evidence?  Lack of resources in the justice system?  Was another law passed to prevent being able to prosecute them?

    •  Is it a crime to attempt (5+ / 0-)

      to purchase a gun and fail or does a convicted felon actually have to possess a weapon to be charged?

      At any rate - if there are tens of thousands of felons failing background checks and being prevented from purchasing guns I'd say the system is working as it should.

      Now if it were only impossible for them to purchase guns without those background checks...

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy... the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

      by lcbo on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 03:48:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is against the law to answer no to the felon (4+ / 0-)

        question on a background check and give it to someone in hopes of passing it and buying a weapon.  Yes, it is illegal.

        No one would process a background check, if the buyer answered "yes" and the seller would promptly hand it back and tell the customer "You can't own a weapon".  

        So apparently to fail the background check, they had to lie to lie answering "no"....that is a crime, for lying.

        Yet, no one bothers to prosecutes them.

        Fail... on so many levels.....enforce the current laws, before we make a lot of new ones that won't work anyway.

      •  My understanding of the concern... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Icbo, I may be wrong, but I think roundhead is saying that the NRA thinks thousands of felons have failed their background checks, but gotten the guns anyway, but not been prosecuted for it.

        I don't think a person should be prosecuted applying to buy a gun, failing the background check, and then walking away without the gun.

        •  No, that wasn't what I was asking (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          True North

          I have been seeing conservatives today literally saying that the current laws are not being enforced, and giving the failing of background checks but no prosecution as an example.  I don't think they are claiming these criminals are getting guns, but that these current laws are not being enforced because there is no prosecution for the attempt.

          •  From everything I see, the NRA has actively (0+ / 0-)

            worked to keep enforcement of current laws from being effective, for the same reasons they oppose any current registration & background check regulations or legislation.

            Not allowing reporting or research & the data collected from purchase applications isn't kept or shared as it should be.

            They set up the whole system to support the unaccountable ownership of guns & that's the public safety issue that needs to be fixed.

            Something that doesn't make good sense, makes bad sense. That means someone is being deliberately hurtful & selfish. Look for motives behind actions & words.

            by CA wildwoman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:41:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  It is illegal (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CA wildwoman

        for felons to apply for a gun.

      •  Yes. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ancblu, CA wildwoman

        Take a look at the 4473 form and read the law.  It is a felony to make false statements on this form.  It is a felony to purchase or posses a gun if you are convicted of a felony, subject to a restraining order, involuntarily hospitalized for psychiatric treatment or convicted of any domestic violence crimes.  

        Someone could purchase a gun in a private party sale so long as the seller had no suspicion that the buyer was a prohibited person.  

        Under capitalism man exploits man, under communism the roles are reversed.

        by DavidMS on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:05:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Don't know the answer to that one, but.... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mungley, a2nite, Ginny in CO, CA wildwoman

      What I'd like background checks and laws against selling guns to felons to accomplish is preventing gun vendors from selling guns to felons.

      Sure, it makes sense to prosecute those who commit crimes, but the horse is out of the barn by then.

      Let's have a look at how the whole sales process works, if it ends up that "thousands" of people who shouldn't be able to buy guns do so anyway.

      This morning, one of the Senators--Durbin?--said that 20% of the guns involved in crimes in Chicago had been sold by one gun dealer in the state. That dealer sold the guns to straw men--straw persons?--who then sold them to others.

      •  And while straw purchases of new guns (4+ / 0-)

        are illegal, it is perfectly legal to straw purchase used many as you want, no questions asked.  The ONLY restriction is you can't know ahead of time that the person you're buying it for is going to commit a crime.

        How fucking stupid of a "law" is that?

        get rid of the Tiahrdt Amendment and fund the fucking enforcement agencies.  start with the head of the ATF being appointed and given some power and a checkbook.

        David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

        by PsychoSavannah on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:40:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's tens of thousands of gun sales. (5+ / 0-)

      Let's do the math.....
      The gun lobby claims that laws are being broken, and not enforced.
      The crime is the sale of guns to felons.
      The gun lobby makes money through the sale of those very same guns.

      Take back the House in 2014!!!! ( 50-state strategy needed)

      by mungley on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:18:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The NRA has successfully lobbied to defund and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, CA wildwoman

      pull the teeth of most federal agencies enforce federal gun laws. Thanks to their efforts the ATF and other federal agencies are not even allowed to do studies on gun violence.

      I have read that Pres. Obama is going authorize the resumption of such studies by executive order. You know...tyranny.

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