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View Diary: UCONN Courant poll: 'The Newtown shootings have swayed their opinions' (179 comments)

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  •  Gun Freaks Are On The Wrong Side Of History Here (10+ / 0-)

    Change is coming, they better get used to it.

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

    by Beetwasher on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:21:17 AM PST

    •  now, be nice (6+ / 0-)

      many gun owners are reasonable people who like to hunt.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:23:04 AM PST

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      •  Then I Wasn't Talking About Them, Was I? (11+ / 0-)

        n/t

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

        by Beetwasher on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:23:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And these reasonable people (7+ / 0-)

        should be fighting for serious gun reform as hard as they fight for their gun rights or face the blame when another child dies.

      •  You mean (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Beetwasher, Faito

        when we see a politician or public figure who's bought and paid for by the NRA---peddling their bullshit--on the Floor---and in front of a microphone---we can't yell, "Hey Dickhead---where's my gun control?"


        A-w-w-w--you're no fun.

        “One look, and your life was absolutely changed,” said Michael McGowan, one of the first police officers to arrive at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14, as a gunman, in the space of minutes, killed 20 first graders and 6 adults.

        by lyvwyr101 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:46:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The other day (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Beetwasher, Laconic Lib, lyvwyr101

        When BHO mentioned hunters specifically, the "Right to Insurrection" crowd went nuts, caterwauling that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, it's about overthrowing a tyrannical government.  

        They base this on misquoting or quoting out of context from the Founders writing and misreading the 2nd Amendment and skipping over inconvenient parts of the Constitution.

        •  "'Right to Insurrection' crowd" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lyvwyr101

          i.e. Sen. Grassley.

          "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

          by Mogolori on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:02:59 AM PST

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        •  Regardless of what you might feel about the 2A, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lyvwyr101

          You must concede that it has jack all to do with hunting.

          No informed individual on either side of this debate thinks it does.

          •  My friend (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Helpless, lyvwyr101

            William McClung talked about this recently.  Even if one believed that the government deserved to be violently overthrown, it is patent nonsense to think that the government itself authorizes the overthrow. No government, whether democratic or totalitarian, does that. Such a reading of the Second Amendment supposes that the Founders were denying the legitimacy and authority of the very governing document they created, and making the Constitution a self-destructing artifact.

            •  That's the theory, yes. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lyvwyr101

              Not hard to imagine, given that they were a bunch of violent revolutionaries ;)

              •  I think many now believe (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Faito, lyvwyr101

                Our founding fathers put that in to placate the South which had militias to ensure any slave rebellion could be easily put down.

                Consider gun advocate Larry Ward's comment that if slaves had guns, things would have been different.  Certainly.  That's why they never did.

                Equally incredible is the notion that our founding fathers put a "poison pill" in the Constitution so that if things didn't turn out as planned, the government could be overturned.

                But the most incredible idea to me is that anyone thinks an armed US citizenry would ever be able to overthrow the US Armed Forces.  The tragedy at Waco was not due to a concerted assault by Federal forces.  It was a case of too much capability put under stress -- an accident.  Only gun nuts think they could take on the US of A Armed forces.  

                Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

                by Helpless on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:55:44 AM PST

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                •  Freedom fighters! (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lyvwyr101, Helpless

                  The NRA has some kind of marketing genius working for them.  Now, a swath of American society thinks owning a gun equals being free.  They ignore the reality that free societies all over the globe have quite strict gun control and somehow un-oppressed populations who enjoy universal health care and decent education systems and free presses and governments that don't start wars of choice in foreign lands on a regular basis.  These folks link gun ownership with the idea that buy buying an assault rifle, they are battling the tyranny (of a democratically elected president and Congress) and therefore following in the footsteps of the blessed founding fathers.

                •  A lot of issue to take here... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Charles Hall
                  Our founding fathers put that in to placate the South which had militias to ensure any slave rebellion could be easily put down.
                  Based upon what? I find it much more feasible, that it was to ensure that citizens could be quickly formed into heavily armed ad hoc defense forces. For all purposes.
                  Equally incredible is the notion that our founding fathers put a "poison pill" in the Constitution so that if things didn't turn out as planned, the government could be overturned.
                  Why is that hard to believe? Keep in mind that such a system of representative democracy had not been attempted in over 2000 years, and it had never been attempted on such a scale. It was very reasonable for them to have considered eventualities that included outright failure.
                  But the most incredible idea to me is that anyone thinks an armed US citizenry would ever be able to overthrow the US Armed Forces.  The tragedy at Waco was not due to a concerted assault by Federal forces.  It was a case of too much capability put under stress -- an accident.  Only gun nuts think they could take on the US of A Armed forces.  
                  That... totally depends. On a lot.

                  First of all: Why is the fighting happening in the first place? Did a President refuse to relinquish power at the end of his term? Or is it a bunch of racist jackasses in the woods deciding to take over Richmond for the Old Dominion? The latter would obviously be a very one-sided affair.

                  The former would have a lot, a LOT of people reaching for their AR's, and it would fracture the military to such a degree that it would be a shadow of it's full strength. A lot of people forget that the outset of the last Civil War, the uniformed military responded in anything but a uniformed manner.

                  And even if it didn't fracture the military, or say it was a military coup even, the past ten years have taught us that a bunch of backwards, demented religious pricks with cow shit and small arms can really, really fuck with the US military. I say that as a recently discharged vet.

                  •   f___ing with the US military (0+ / 0-)

                    Yes, just what we want for here -- Another Afghanistan complete with IEDs, suicide bombers and snipers.  In the end, could they be successful?  Have they been in Iraq or Afghanistan?  

                    We lost in Vietnam because we were fighting forces backed by the Chinese and we didn't dare expand the war to include them.  Who would come to our ("freedom fighter's") aid?  It wouldn't be Canada or Great Briton.  Do you want the Chinese, Russia or the Arab world supporting the overthrow of the US?

                    Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

                    by Helpless on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 06:22:34 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes--change is coming- (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Faito, Beetwasher, RadGal70

      whether they like it or not.

      “One look, and your life was absolutely changed,” said Michael McGowan, one of the first police officers to arrive at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14, as a gunman, in the space of minutes, killed 20 first graders and 6 adults.

      by lyvwyr101 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:18:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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