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View Diary: NRA's opposition to universal background check shows just how unreasonable it plans to be (227 comments)

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  •  Just want to be sure we're all talking the same (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SpamNunn, KVoimakas, mungley, KenBee

    thing.
     The Instant check is a good thing. The NICS database has to be fully complied with, and funded. There are certainly problems with the Mental Health aspect of it; privacy, stigma, etc. But that should be able to be addressed. So far, one of the biggest loopholes is that it is an unfunded mandate for the States to comply with. This needs to sorted out.
      If, in the end, private sales is to be included, so be it. I personally think that is a Constitutional issue that needs to be addressed, but, time and Courts will tell.
     Now full background checks every time someone purchases a firearm is another story. I have voluntarily submitted to this in order to obtain a concealed carry permit. No problem, for the special permit. But for ordinary purchases meant for home, or sport, I think it's over legislating. First, that would be an added expense/tax for every purchase, a nightmare for LEOs time and staffing, and the forerunner of a massive bureaucracy and database (see TSA).

    "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

    by meagert on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:55:34 PM PST

    •  Good point. What you said. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas, meagert, KenBee

      Many hands make light work, but light hearts make heavy work the lightest of all.

      by SpamNunn on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:56:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  WHAT is an "ordinary" purchase? We either do it (6+ / 0-)

      all the way--or leave alone..

      I mean, the loophole is there now, why pretend we have solved the issue with a half-hearted solution?

      •  Not saying no NICS check (0+ / 0-)

        Just not a non-instant FULL background check.
        Like I said about private sales, I think that's a Constitutional issue...

        "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

        by meagert on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:14:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's also a serious privacy issue (0+ / 0-)

          with opening up NICS to private sellers.

          It creates an instant, free, and untracable background check for everyone who applies for a job.

          Take their application, pretend you're selling them a gun, run them through www.nics.gov, get a "no sale".... no job for you.

          Close that loophole, with serious penalties for using the system for anything but selling a firearm, and I could probably get behind it.

          But understand that it won't help the crime problem much. Black market transactions won't use it, and those are the ones we're mostly worried about. Always make sure that you're solving the right problem.

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:03:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  What about national licensing (7+ / 0-)

      With annual renewal subject to passing a test and background check, different classes of licenses allowing different classes and numbers of firearms and ammo, etc., that could be revoked due to various events such as major gun safety violation, felony arrest or conviction, drunk driving, severe mental illness diagnosis, etc. With such a license in hand you could buy any gun, ammo or accessory you're entitled to, up to the allowed quantity, without per-purchase checks. Saves time, intrusion, bother, money, and makes everyone (almost) happy. Swipe, pay and go! Plus, it could be used as a general ID.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:34:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No need if NICS is functional...n/t (0+ / 0-)

        "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

        by meagert on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:48:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What's that? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DefendOurConstitution

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:49:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Never mind, looked it up (0+ / 0-)

          But what's the difference between instant and full background check and why is one ok and the other intrusive and/or cumbersome?

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:53:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  More intrusive, long wait n/t (0+ / 0-)

            "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

            by meagert on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:28:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thus licensing (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              trumpeter, Smoh, Calamity Jean

              Which would do a thorough check once a year to speed things up, but be subject to instant revocation or downgrading if triggered by some disqualifying event, that either just happened, or was just found out.

              Sure, it's intrusive. So is filing a tax return and obtaining a driver's license. Gun owners would have to just deal with it. In the end, everyone wins.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:35:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No need if NICS is funded and complied with. (0+ / 0-)

                "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

                by meagert on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:46:03 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  We're going in circles here (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm talking deep checks, which apparently NICS doesn't do and I believe are necessary. You say it's intrusive and cumbersome. I say tough on the former (so long as it's constitutional), and do licensing to deal with the latter.

                  I honestly could care less about whether this inconveniences gun owners. I'm vastly more concerned about keeping guns out of the wrong hands, which this won't completely solve, but will help with. I'm just suggesting a way to make it minimally inconvenient, even if it will be inconvenient.

                  "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                  by kovie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:49:26 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  2 minutes ago, you didn't know what NICS was (0+ / 0-)

                    now you're an expert, and couldn't care less about what I think. So I'll leave you to your own thoughts.

                    "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

                    by meagert on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:57:11 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You yourself said it wasn't deep, or thorough (0+ / 0-)

                      And when I suggest a way to make it thorough but less cumbersome, you keep referring me to the NICS, which is a non-sequitor.

                      Are you here to advocate for the NRA, or have a real discussion, because the two are obviously mutually exclusive since the NRA is a front for the gun industry which wants minimal barriers to gun sales.

                      Your tone indicates to me what your priorities are.

                      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                      by kovie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:10:53 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

    •  What's the difference between the two? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      NICS and Full background check?
      Why is one more expensive?

      With full compliance costs should go down per user. And, yes; Fund that mandate.

      As far as mental health data goes, there is no reason to have to tell the retailer why the prospective purchaser is on the list.
      The purchaser will generally know he's not allowed to buy a gun. The Stigma arises when he chooses to defy the law.

      Unlike the TSA the gun purchasing public is participating in a specific activity with a specific screening process.  All we are trying to do is prevent someone who has already demonstrated that she should own a gun from buying one.
      The TSA is hoping to identify someone who might do some unspecified thing at some time during travel.

      We can assume gun owners will still be allowed to carry bottles of water in volumes over 3 ounces.

      Take back the House in 2014!!!! ( 50-state strategy needed)

      by mungley on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:57:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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