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View Diary: Israeli Security Chief and Holocaust survivor compares Israel to Nazi Germany (173 comments)

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  •  at the same time, circa 1970, the US was at (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    codairem, poco, WattleBreakfast

    war with N VN.  Today they are trading partners.  Regional geopolitics change over time and Israel is hardly facing an existential threat from any of its neighbors

    •  that's debatable. (5+ / 0-)

      Israel has certainly sustained losses due to Iranian/Syrian support of terrorist groups over the years.  They see themselves in a perpetual state of war (and the actual state of war w/Syria--although there have been few shots fired) helps to confirm that.

      The security concerns are quite real (although always ignored on this site) although the often extreme military reactions to these concerns are generally unacceptable.

      For example--I supported limited action in the south against Hizbollah in 2006. I did not support an all-out war against Lebanon.

      •  you have your POV (3+ / 0-)

        unfortunately, in my opinion, it does little to resolve the current situation; if memory serves, more Israelis die annually from drunk driving than die from the activities of Iranian supported groups

        •  uh...and more Americans die from road (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          volleyboy1

          accidents than from gun violence.

          So the gun deaths aren't particularly important?

          I'm not sure that NRA-style logic is the most effective way to state your case...

          •  No, all deaths matter. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            entlord

            We should treat cars with the same respect we treat guns. They can be deadly. Those more numerous deaths from cars, of course, also matter.

            One Israeli death is exactly as important as one Palestinean death.

            •  I note my statement was misconstrued as is all (3+ / 0-)

              too often what happens in these diaries.  I did not mean to denigrate anyone's death but merely to put it into perspective.  I could have offered the statistic that 100 Palestinians die for each Israeli death but then I would have been accused of not mourning all 101 deaths but only the Palestinians

              •  my point is really pretty simple--it's similar to (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                volleyboy1

                the one I responded to below:

                Israel perceives itself to have a security threat.  It does.  The fact that Palestinian deaths are a lot higher than Israeli deaths has nothing to do with the fact that the threats are indeed real--4 wars and ongoing terrorism (while less than in, say, 2002) will do that to a state.

                Yes, Palestine lives under constant threat as well and never in any of my comments have I ever condoned the occupation.  But I was talking about Israel.

                •  you note 4 wars; when 2047 rolls around (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  alain2112, WattleBreakfast

                  will this war be relegated to the history books or will it continue to be an excuse for Israel to continue its present policies?  

                  •  I'm not sure the middle east will exist in (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    volleyboy1

                    2047 at this rate, unfortunately.

                    Although one might ask the same of the Palestinian view of 1948.  Many Palestinians view Israel as a cancer--and one that has existed for nearly 70 years.  If the mutual hatred persists, I don't see much of a solution.

                    I have read articles suggesting that the only way for peace is for both sides to try to move past the 20th century ills.  That is probably an accurate assessment--although I don't know that it's possible.

      •  "sustained losses"? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alain2112, Bisbonian, too many people

        "quite real security concerns"?

        Israeli casualties in any given year are usually outnumbered by Palestinian casualties by an order of magnitude. They face deaths in the double digits and use them as an excuse to bomb cities.

        Death table from wikipedia with Israel on the right (children in parenthesis):

        2011     118 (13)           11 (5)
        2010     81 (9)            8 (0)
        2009     1034 (314)      9 (1)
        2008     887 (128)     35 (4)
        2007     385 (52)             13 (0)
        2006     665 (140)     23 (1)

        "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

        by joey c on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 02:38:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  and Jordan is a prime example of positive (0+ / 0-)

      geopolitical changes as you're describing.  However that's not the case across the board, unfortunately..

      •  Jordan is another powder keg (0+ / 0-)

        Don't expect the monarchy to survive an Arab Spring

        •  that is a possibility. Although I see the treaty (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FG

          with Israel holding up, at least for the foreseeable future.

        •  Indeed. The whole Middle East is a powder keg. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          entlord, alain2112

          We think the reason is evil dictators and Monarchies. They just happen to be in power. The real problem is a combination of global warming, poverty, unequal income distribution, drought ( see aforementioned global warming), and scarce resources, including land, especially in Israel and the occupied territories.

          •  thank you for your insights; for this century (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            alain2112

            water will be the new oil.  This has been my worldview since at least 1984 as I have personally witnessed water shortages in FL and GA where it was once plentiful

            •  I couldn't agree more. We will have water wars. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              entlord

              Few folks realize that we are running out of ground water. Both the Southwest and the Middle East are expected to experience worsening drought as the panet warms. Last year was just the tip of the iceberg. Once the Arctic melts, most likely in the next few years, our weather patterns are going to change, mostly for the worse. Agriculture in the USA is going to be hit hard. Looking at what the world might be like in the next few decades makes me glad to be old. I feel so sad for humanity. The looming suffering is going to be unimaginable.

        •  It seems to manage for now. As long as tensions (0+ / 0-)

          between Palestinians and the rest of population are managed, they will be ok.

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