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View Diary: What you may not know about gun violence in Chicago (335 comments)

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  •  I understand that, but... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrankRose, noway2, AaronInSanDiego

    While I agree that the 2A was largely protecting a state's right to not rely on a federalized army, it's also absurd to think that the FF were against open gun ownership. As such, I find discussions based on 1780s legalese to be unproductive.

    What is productive is identifying the initial conditions that lead to violent impulses (whether the end result is a handgun or a hammer.) I'd rather live in a moral society rather than an ersatz moral society where the criminals are merely impotent.

    Gun control loses traction when the shock of a tragedy wears off and people realize that the vast majority of gun violence is either black on black crime or part of the larger "war on drugs".

    Create a pathway from poverty to prosperity and end draconian drug laws an

    •  The NRA would have given the Founders (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ItsSimpleSimon, cocinero

      an F rating!

      We’ve also always had gun control. The Founding Fathers instituted gun laws so intrusive that, were they running for office today, the NRA would not endorse them. While they did not care to completely disarm the citizenry, the founding generation denied gun ownership to many people: not only slaves and free blacks, but law-abiding white men who refused to swear loyalty to the Revolution.

      For those men who were allowed to own guns, the Founders had their own version of the “individual mandate” that has proved so controversial in President Obama’s health-care-reform law: they required the purchase of guns. A 1792 federal law mandated every eligible man to purchase a military-style gun and ammunition for his service in the citizen militia. Such men had to report for frequent musters—where their guns would be inspected and, yes, registered on public rolls.  (From The Secret History of Guns in the Atlantic.  I don't know how to do links!)

      From the book "Gunfight": Early Americans denied the right to gun ownership even to law-abiding people if they failed a political test of loyalty to the Revolution. The founders also declared that free white men were members of the militia and, as such, were forced to appear with their guns at public ‘musters’ where government officials would inspect the weapons and register them on public rolls. When pressing public necessity demanded it, the founding fathers were also willing to impress guns from law abiding citizens, even if those citizens were left without guns to defend themselves from a criminal attack."

    •  I always find amusing responses that boil down to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChurchofBruce

      saying "there is only one aspect of this issue I'm willing to talk about."

      Such exclusionary argumentation is, you might agree, unproductive.

      It is, in truth exactly the same tactic the NRA wants to use to distract us from having a real and comprehensive debate.

      Part of that broad discussion should be to determine what, today, we really take "well regulated" and "militia" to mean. Otherwise, if that language is to be taken out of the realm of discussion (because it is archaic?) then it is time to amend the second amendment itself.

      •  The Second Amendment is not a major problem. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sharon Wraight

        Given the limitations the court wrote in the Heller and McDonald decisions, it seems likely that all of the President's proposals to reduce gun violence would be likely to be found constitutional, even with the current conservative court.

        Of course, it would be better if one or two of the conservative activist justices were replaced and Heller and McDonald were overturned. The four dissenters said that the 2nd was all about state militia, not restrictions on civilian gun ownership which have been found constitutional for decades.

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