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View Diary: What you may not know about gun violence in Chicago (335 comments)

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  •  well now, Pete you've drifted into (4+ / 0-)

    standard LP territory with your quoting "NATURAL LAW" and Locke would be best tempered by quoting /citing some Tom Paine, otherwise many folks here will think you a 'bagger sympathizer

    Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ "We're like a strip club with a million bouncers and no strippers." (HBO's Real Time, January 18, 2013)

    by annieli on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:38:13 AM PST

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    •  Not to mention, (5+ / 0-)

      Pete misses three important points.

      1) Natural law is not an immutable reality; it is a theory of law, the way that natural selection is a theory of evolution, and gravity is a theory of motion.  However, unlike natural selection and gravity, there is a lot of evidence showing the inadequacy of the theory of natural law, including a ton of recent research showing that morality (and hence law) is a product of human cognition--- it doesn't exist outside of our minds.  

      2) Even if there was such a thing as natural law, there is no guarantee that the laws we write correspond to it.  Just because the Founding Fathers held it to be self-evident that all men are created equal doesn't mean there is a natural law to that effect.  For all we know, there is a natural law that men are not created equal, and our "self-evident" laws contravene them.  Indeed, for most of human history, equality was not a virtue.  Look at the Founding Fathers themselves--- they certainly didn't live up to that "natural law", did they? Writing tracts about equality by day, beating and raping their human chattel by night.  Restricting voting and citizenship, and so on.  

      The point is--- they weren't necessarily right.  And they, being men of the Enlightenment, knew this perfectly well.  That's why they wrote the constitution as forming a "more perfect union".  If the work was complete, they would have written just "perfect union".  As products of the Enlightenment, they would be aghast at you worshipping their work, instead of applying the fruits of the 230 years of experience gained here and in other countries.

      3)  "whenever the Legislators endeavour to take away, and destroy the Property of the People, or to reduce them to Slavery under Arbitrary Power,"

      There is not a single gun law in the country that does these things.  The Founding Fathers may have feared a distant federal dictator, but 230 years of experience gained here and in other countries shows that stable, lasting democracies don't devolve into dictatorships, and that they can disarm themselves peacefully, and let the darkness and overwhelming fear in their souls drift away.   Unwarranted and unhealthy fear will drag down your soul, Pete.  Let it go.

      Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

      by nominalize on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 12:55:40 PM PST

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