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View Diary: 2d Amendment My Ass: Scalia's Opinion Gives No Protection to Rapid Fire Guns or High Capacity Clips (57 comments)

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  •  Respectfully, (0+ / 0-)

    I am not a "fun with guns" RW fanatic, nor am I an ignorant NRA member, nor do I even own a firearm, but none-the-less, I read the "right to bear arms shall not be infringed" to mean that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed." 

    Limitations? 

    Sure.... if someone is a convicted felon, we need to have universal background checks to prevent them from purchasing firearms. 

    Now, if you want to establish another limitation, while I do respect it, I however may not agree with it. But the  thing that I would like you to respectfully consider is this:

    I see all of you anti 2nd Amendment folks sharing one fundamental belief, namely: that the 2nd Amendment is no longer necessary to protect our freedom. However, I would like you to honestly answer one question for me:

    Do you honestly believe that Bush/Cheney would have relinquished power if not for the 2nd Amendment?

    Let's review the facts:

    Bush/Cheney attempted what can easily be said to be an outright coup, involving massive corruption, public unapologetic admission of torture on national tv, tyrannical wars under false pretenses with trumped up lies killing untold hundreds of thousands of people, thousands of Americans, trillions of dollars, repeal of Habeas Corpus, illegal wire taps, corporate corruption on a massive industrial scale, (most likely) stolen elections in 2000 and 2004, etc etc etc .... and with the very real threat of a tribunal at the Hague for War crimes, or maybe even war crime prosecution here.... 

    Personally, but no, I am sorry. I absolutely do not believe that Bush/Cheney would have relinquished power had it not been for the 2nd Amendment ... if not for an armed populace ... a populace that is armed to the teeth. Bush/Cheney would not dare resist the will of the people in a nation where the populace is armed. 

    Do you? Honestly? 

    Could you look me in the eye and honestly tell me that you do? 

    And if you say, "yes" ... I am sorry, but I don't believe you. 

    Answer me this: How many innocent souls (Iraqi or American) were killed in the Iraq war?

    How many? 

    Answer: too many! 

    SO
    Before you start preaching to me about "rivers of blood", you might want to check your facts and try to remember the last 8 years. Sorry, even if there are 10 times the number of these shootings, I really don't care.. because the government (ANY and ALL governments) can always be far far worse, AND THEY HAVE WITHIN OUR LIFETIME... within our childrens lifetime ... in fact, just yearerday ....

    FACT: all governments are or can be capricious and untrustworthy, by their very nature. 

    PERIOD!

    So, if you tell me that the 2nd Amendment is no longer necessary, I am gonna challenge you every time. 

    Every time.

    And I find it profoundly ironic that it is the Republicans who are supporting the 2nd Amendment right and not the Democrats... in light of the recent abuses of power by Bush and Cheney. Just thought there should be some perspective in this discussion.... rather than your insulting dismissal of those of us who are defending the 2nd Amendment as being merely "ignorant NRA gun enthusiasts" because I am becoming tired of that insulting ignorant refrain. The founding fathers enshrined the 2A for a reason. And it was a very wise and prescient reason, of you ask me. 

    •  Absurd question based on (7+ / 0-)

      a silly premise:

      Do you honestly believe that Bush/Cheney would have relinquished power if not for the 2nd Amendment?
      Yes, I do.

      Guns do not restrain the US Government.

      As an American, I reject treason and the use of violence against this nation.  
       

      Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

      by TomP on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 09:36:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  When the fuck did "Second Amendment (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DefendOurConstitution, kharma, TomP

        solutions" become other than RW memes on Daily Kos?  Sheesh.  And from a 600k UID.  Nah.  I don't find that curious!

        •  So let me get this straight (0+ / 0-)

          You (and three of your friends) are incriminating me because I mention that the US CONSTITUTION protects our freedoms? 

          Really? 

          Seriously? 

          Yes my UID is 600k+ ... I am new to Daily Kos. Obviously. And since you mention this... as a new member of your online community, are you seriously informing me that according to you (and the entire Daily Kos community) the US CONSTITUTION is a "RW meme"? 

          ... a right wing meme?????

          Seriously? 

          So, the US CONSTITUTION is not a respected document here? It is merely a right wing meme

          Seriously!!!!!?????

          Interesting. Very interesting.

          Excuse me for asking, but....

          What nation are you from (no no no, don't bother answering, Mr. "Its the Supreme Court Stupid", Mr. "DefendOurConstitution", Mr. "Kharma", and Mr:"TomP" ........ that's merely a rhetorical question) because your choice to incriminate me for mentioning the US CONSTITUTION suggests to me that you are not from the United States of America..... at least, not from the same United States of America that I am from.

          (And I sure do hope you all see the supremely profound irony that DefendOurConstitution is incriminating me for DEFENDING OUR CONSTITUTION.... !!!!!!!!!)

          ROFLMFAO!!!!

          Btw, that was sarcasm, because I really would laugh, if it were not so profoundly sad.

          Now, I am sorry if this offends you all, but I am even inclined to ask:

          Have you ever heard of John Adams? George Washington? Thomas Jefferson? Benjamin Franklin? The American Revolution? The Decleration of Independence? Does this nation's history mean anything to you? Does it mean NOTHING to you?

          Apparently not..........

          Because you sure as heck sound like you ain't from the same country that I was born and raised in!

          QUESTION: Are you telling me (and are you telling the world) that the entire Daily Kos community does not hold the US CONSTITUTION as sacrosanct? 

          Are you? 

          Do you want to go on the record with that? 

          Do you? 

          Apparently so... and duly noted.

          Good to know.

          "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
      •  I reject treason too. (0+ / 0-)

        Who said that I didn't?

        It is insulting for you to suggest or imply that I am.

        However, if Bush/Cheney had failed to transfer power to Obama, now THAT would have been treason. And THAT was my point, and you know it. So please refrain from insults of this nature.

        Now, you say that you do (believe that Bush/Cheney would have transferred power.)

        I don't believe you.

        I don't believe that you're being honest with yourself. I believe that you are blinded by your emotional reaction to the horrific events in Newtown. I believe that you will say whatever it takes to make yourself feel safe and soothe your emotional trauma, even if it means lying. Just as you are most certainly lying about what my words have implied. You loose credibility and respect, when you do this.

        But, be that as it may.  My point remains. I am not the fanatic "gun loving" audience that you are portraying as the ardent supporters of the 2A. Fact is, I have never owned a gun. But, I none-the-less support the 2 Amendment Constitutional Right, because I (sadly) think that it is necessary. You do not. I respect you and your opinion. I disagree with your opinion, but I respect it and I respect you. Please respect me and mine. Save your insulting tirades.

        FACT: The Founding Fathers of this nation fought a war against the ruling government, due to tyranny by their own government. As a result of that first hand experience of tyranny by their own government, the Founding Fathers enshrined the individual's right to bear arms, to safeguard the individual against tyranny by their own government. This is the historical context. This is an historical fact. This is our heritage.

        Everyone knows this.

        You know this.

        I know this.

        EVERYONE knows this.

        "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."
    •  Well, I read "A well-regulated militia (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP

      being necessary to the defense of a free state,..." to mean that a well-regulated militia is necessary to the defense of a free state, and to modify that which comes thereafter.

      As for your "Second Amendment solutions", that is treading real close to HR territory.  Sharon Angel-style politics are NOT appreciated here!

      •  FACT (0+ / 0-)

        FACT: The Founding Fathers of this nation fought a war against the ruling government, due to tyranny by their own government. As a result of that first hand experience of tyranny by their own government, the Founding Fathers enshrined the individual's right to bear arms, to safeguard the individual against tyranny by their own government. The "well regulated militia" being the joining of many individuals exercising their individual "right to bear arms" as they so choose to defend their individual freedom against the tyranny by their own government. This is the historical context. This is the historical rationale. This is the historical intent. This is an historical fact. This is our heritage.

        Everyone knows this.

        You know this.

        I know this.

        EVERYONE knows this.

        Any and all attempts to deny this are willfully fraudulent.

        "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."
      •  And threats of UNWARRENTED abusive HR (0+ / 0-)

        will not make your argument any less fraudulent.

    •  Well, by your own logic I'd say that the ban on (0+ / 0-)

      criminals and those with mental illness is an infringement on a criminal or mentally ill persons right to bear arms. Let's get that overturned immediately....

      I read the "right to bear arms shall not be infringed" to mean that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed."

      Limitations?


        Are not limitations an infringement?

      Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

      by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 07:43:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are being willfully myopic (0+ / 0-)

        because the comparison was to "yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater" and you know it.

         A criminal who has engaged in a violent crime may have forsaken their "right to bear arms" just as they may have forsaken their "right to walk free" and you know that too.

        You cannot win this discussion with childishly transparent games of misleading sarcasm.... no matter how artful you think you're being, trust me, you're not. 

        Your lack of respect for the 2A in your willlfully ignoring our very own colonial history in the American Revolution and the first hand experience of tyrrany by our own government that our founding father's fought with blood sweat and tears to overcome that drove their insistence upon enshrining the individual's "right to bear arms" is proving you all to be hypocrites of the highest order.

        And you call yourselves a "reality based community" .... not so much, apparently. 

        And you posture yourselves as honest historians .... only when it suits you, apparently. 

        And you claim to be the defenders of the US Constitution.... hypocrites is more like it, apparently. 

        You are proving yourselves to be petty lying dishonest rude bullies, whenever someone challenges you on issues you disagree with. I may be new here but it doesn't take a low Daily Kos UID to see that you are giving Daily Kos a bad name. 

        I am a liberal.

        I am a progressive.

        I am a Democrat.

        I support Obama.

        And, I also support the 2A.

        And there are a lot of us around. 

        Deal with it. Respect it. Or loose your relevance in the national narrative, because the NRA (idiot) Republicans aren't the only ones defending the 2A, in case you hadn't noticed.

        •  Well quite honestly in reading the rabid defense (0+ / 0-)

          Of 2A I'd have to agree with Wayne on the issue of mental health, I think if given a true mental health assessment that a good 90% of 'law abiding gun owners' would be banned. Incessant and perpetual paranoia, irrational fears that everyone is out to get them, that the government is out to get them and their guns, that a hundred round magazine is vital for hunting vermin or deer- yeah, pretty damn obvious a mental health issue there.
             A limitation is indeed an infringement, call it whatever you'd like to fit your narrative  

          Noun    1.    infringement - an act that disregards an agreement or a right
          2.infringement - a crime less serious than a felony
           
          2act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on:
          to limit or reduce someone's legal rights or freedom
            Nothing childish about that, those are straight from a few different dictionaries.
             Quite frankly I don't give a shit about Scalia's interpretation of much of anything, do you clamor to protect Citizens United vs FEC in the same manner? I don't believe in massive gun proliferation and will apologize to no one for my feelings towards it, if in the end it costs Dems votes, so be it, I prefer to be on the right side of this debate.
             I have owned guns in the past, mine were all what you would call sniper rifles, Accuracy Internatioal PM, 4 different Parker Hales, a 1200 and it's military version, the M82, a M83, a few Rem 700's, a Steyr SSG 69- All very heavily modified for competitive shooting. So no, I am by no means unfamiliar with the workings of rifles and have a very clear understanding on what one can be used for. High cap mags have no place whatsoever in civilian hands. For your info every rifle I owned had a military counterpart and not a one had a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds.  
             When you have a child killed by guns, when you've had 9 friends gunned down over the years as I have and you can still hoop and holler about their greatness to any and all things, well, be my guest.
             I am a liberal.
             I am an Independent.
             I support Obama on most issues and spent well into 500-550 hrs helping to get him elected.
             I am not nor have I ever been a one issue voter.
             Nothing good comes fast and nothing good comes easy but it's a fight I'm more than willing to take on, fuck the repercussions politically.
              Have at it.
              I will

          Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

          by teabaggerssuckbalz on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 04:55:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You have avoided the central (0+ / 0-)

            issues that I raised. Typical.

            I am no fan of Scalia's, though I agree with his ruling on the 2A.

            I am absolutely not a supporter of the Citizens United decision.

            Please do not insult me in this manner again.

            If you want to mention volunteer hours, as a measure of something, here goes:

            FACT:

            Given your 550 hour number, I spent more volunteer hours getting Obama elected than you did, many times over.

            I spent more volunteer hours in the primary election of 2008 alone, than your 550, getting Obama elected.

            I spent more volunteer hours in the general election of 2008 alone, than your 550, getting Obama elected.

            I spent more volunteer hours in 2011 alone, for Obama's 2012 campaign, than your 550, getting Obama elected.

            I spent about 500 to 550 hours in 2012, for Obama's 2012 campaign, than your 550, getting Obama elected... but then, I was very ill during the last 6 weeks of the election.... but even being very ill, I still put in about 150 to 180 hours in those last 6 weeks.

            Do you not presume to judge me, Sir.

            You avoid completely the primary subject of the writings, efforts, and intent of the founding fathers, as well as, this nation's colonial history, which means you have no honor in your discourse.

            I have nothing more to say to you.

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