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View Diary: Why can't I own a Davy Crockett Recoilless Rifle? (103 comments)

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  •  Republished to notRKBA, because this isn't (5+ / 0-)

    an official RKBA diary.

    And for shits and giggles: arms (2A) = stand of arms (late 1700s) = small arms (today's terms). Not nukes.

    That's the Cliff notes versions. I am talking about use of language at the time, not current definitions either.

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:28:51 AM PST

    •  But you do agree that individual citizens (4+ / 0-)

      shouldn't own this weapon, right?

      An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

      by OllieGarkey on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:35:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This item not covered by the second amendment? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OllieGarkey, Smoh, rockhound

        Yep.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:52:17 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  So to clarify: (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kareylou, Smoh, DefendOurConstitution

          1. You do not believe that this weapon is covered by the second amendment.

          2. Even if it was covered by the second amendment, you would not think that people should own it.

          Do I understand you, or am I assuming too much?

          An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

          by OllieGarkey on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:58:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  So, the 2nd amendment doesn't prevent us from (4+ / 0-)

          defining the terms of what is covered and what is not?

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:58:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The words meant what the words meant back (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Canis Aureus, rockhound

            when they were written.

            If that doesn't suit our purposes we amend it. We've done that how many times already?

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:04:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Nukes are ridiculous but any limit is outragerous! (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OllieGarkey, David54, second gen

            or at least that is the gun Cult's position.  Blast nukes (or RPS, or tanks, etc.) as ridiculous, but at every juncture keep fighting that (what amount to) machine guns that can kill dozens in a couple of minutes can never be regulated or limited because FREEDUM!

            Not long before we hear how gun control led to what happened in Germany.

            Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

            by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:24:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  correction: RPGs, not RPS. n/t (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              OllieGarkey

              Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

              by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:32:10 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Who said this? (0+ / 0-)

              No one in my group. That's for damn sure.

              Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:52:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Plenty in your group, including yourself, insist (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                second gen

                that there can be no limits to magazine/clip sizes and that there can be no limit to any assault weapon - essentially insisting that what amount to machine guns (or at least can fire as fast as them for all intents and purposes) can never be regulated.  Of course when the slippery slope argument is brought up then you scream bloody murder because it is unfair to compare your sacred guns to nukes (or RPGs or tanks).

                Perhaps you could educate us ignoramuses as to what is the limit.  Should it be a revolver with 6 rounds?  A pistol with 10-14 rounds.  A semi-automatic with 10/15/20/30 rounds? An RPG?  Where is the limit?  To me the limit is that we have one person shot every 5 minutes and by looking at all the data that number is on the rise and likely to keep rising for a while. What passes for firearm regulations clearly does not work and we need a national approach with sensible firearm regulations.

                Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

                by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:50:11 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There is no limit to small arms. (0+ / 0-)

                  The NFA is unconstitutional (and so is the Hughes amendment) but I'm not going to fight them due to inertia.

                  How would we know if what we have works or not? We've never tried to enforce it to any appreciable degree. See the President's own comments on that with regards to federal prosecutions.

                  Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                  by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:05:59 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Kickemout, DefendOurConstitution
                    The NFA is unconstitutional
                    Who replaced the Supreme Court with you?

                    Just because, you've convinced yourself that the National Firearms Act of 1934 is unconstitutional, doesn't mean that it is.  

                    So -- again -- bullshit. Until a federal court overturns the act, and that decision is sustained up to its final appeal, it is by definition constitutional.  

                  •  And you know this how ? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DefendOurConstitution
                    The NFA is unconstitutional ...
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/...
                    The purpose of the NFA was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and short barreled shotguns.
                    Are you saying that you think the rules re "machine guns and short barreled shotguns" are wrong / unconstitutional ?

                    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                    by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:21:38 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Based on the point of the second and the previous (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BlackSheep1

                      Miller ruling, yep.

                      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                      by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 12:25:25 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  So you are against the rules re M.G. and S.B.S. ? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        DefendOurConstitution

                        You would have everybody be able to have them ?

                        "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                        by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 02:30:33 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Everyone is able to have them right now. (0+ / 0-)

                          I have a problem with the Hughes Amendment, the CLEO signature (not sure where that stands right now), and that silencers are included in the NFA list.

                          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                          by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 03:15:05 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh really ? (0+ / 0-)

                            Everyone is able to have a machine gun ?
                            I thought the whole "check um out" deal made some people unable to own one .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:09:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sorry, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BlackSheep1

                            thought we were talking about those who own guns legally now.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:13:28 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So you were saying (0+ / 0-)

                            everybody could own a machine gun because you thought we were talking about just the people who could have a machine gun ?
                            We were not talking about those other people who could own a machine gun , you know , because they are part of "everybody", but can't because they are not part of the "everybody" you were talking about when you said "everybody" .

                            Everyone is able to have them right now.
                            My mistake , when I read your comment , I jumped to the conclusion that you meant everyone everyone . I now see that you just meant "everyone" as in less than 100% of all the people . If you had perhaps worded your comment in non gunlegaleses , Everyone who is permitted to legally own one is able to have then right now , I maybe would have been able to see what you really meant .
                            So sorry for my misunderstanding of your very interesting comment .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:30:58 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  People think they're banned. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BlackSheep1

                            They are not at the federal level. My apologies, I thought you were one of those people.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:33:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So you jumped to the conclusion (0+ / 0-)

                            that makes me wrong ?
                            I see that game played so very often .
                            It is a game surefire to lose the person playing respect .

                            And then lets look at a comment ,

                            And you know this how ? (1+ / 0-)

                                The NFA is unconstitutional ...

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/....

                                The purpose of the NFA was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and short barreled shotguns.

                            Are you saying that you think the rules re "machine guns and short barreled shotguns" are wrong / unconstitutional ?

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:21:38 AM PST

                            It says "regulate" not ban .
                            I never said "ban" did I ?
                            And just about anyone who knows anything knows .
                            ah yes... the full auto 1928 Thompson (9+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                                IndieGuy, indycam, meagert, oldpunk, KenBee, theatre goon, gerrilea, KVoimakas, Robobagpiper

                            banned from casual possession by the NFA '34, a whole year after the causation of the bloodshed, was repealed.

                            by 43north on Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 08:13:27 PM PDT
                            ...
                            A friend of mine had two of them . (1+ / 0-)
                            by indycam on Tue Jul 31, 2012 at 08:16:49 PM PDT
                            ...
                             His name perchance wasn't "Alfonse"? n/t (1+ / 0-)
                             by 43north on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 05:10:44 AM PDT
                            ...
                            Probably NFA-legal knockoffs (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            KVoimakas, 43north
                            by Robobagpiper on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 08:35:20 AM PDT
                            ...
                            I have one. (4+ / 0-)
                            I like it.
                            by KVoimakas on Wed Aug 01, 2012 at 10:21:33 AM PDT

                            .........................................................
                            http://www.dailykos.com/...
                            Read the whole thread .
                            No legal machine guns ? (8+ / 0-)

                            My friend has two legal original Thompsons .

                            by indycam on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:10:45 PM PST

                            .........................................................
                             So if I have a license for a full auto Thompson (0+ / 0-)

                            with a 50 round drum , you need 51 ?
                            And if I have a 100 round drum , you need 101 ?

                            "brutes have risen to power, but they lie!" Charlie Chaplin

                            by indycam on Sat Jan 15, 2011 at 07:48:07 PM PST

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:57:30 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You do realize I apologized right? nt (0+ / 0-)

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:32:15 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Is that all you have to say ? (0+ / 0-)

                            Its been shown to you that you knew the truth the whole time , that you yourself knew . Do you have nothing to say about what has been shown to you in black and white ?
                            Black and white with your name attached more than once .
                            Is this the way you handle yourself ?
                            Does that make you feel like a responsible adult ?

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:42:05 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Now that your confusion is out of the way (0+ / 0-)
                            My apologies, I thought you were one of those people.
                            you can answer the question about the rules honestly .
                            So you are against the rules re M.G. and S.B.S. ? (1+ / 0-)

                            You would have everybody be able to have them ?

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 02:30:33 PM PST

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:33:25 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I think that they should be sold and treated like (0+ / 0-)

                            a regular firearm.

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:34:47 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So I should be able to go into the second hand (0+ / 0-)

                            market and freely buy full auto machine guns and shorter than 18 inch barreled shotguns ?
                            No registration , no background check , no nothing , just cash and go ?

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:49:08 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yep. nt (0+ / 0-)

                            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                            by KVoimakas on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 06:22:44 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

            •  There are really basically 3 groups: (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KVoimakas, laker

              the NRA leadership (the board includes the manufacturers of the high capacity clips and the Bushmaster)
              the gun cultists, worshippers, fetishists, addicts. They will remain in lockstep with the NRA leadership. Because.
              responsible gun owners, many of whom are casual members of the NRA and who have bought into the NRA hysteria about the 2nd amendment.

              I think we're beginning to see daylight between the responsible gun owners and the other two groups.

              I believe the stated objective of the RKBA group is to not cede elections over the 2nd amendment.
              I don't agree with some of them but at least some of them can admit that we can have some regulation without the hysteria about the 2nd amendment being provoked.

              Another major group provoking hysteria over the 2nd amendment is the religious right. They've also been provoking racial antagonism for the last 4 years.

              I think it's important to have a clear picture of this resistance to solving our problems, and to have a strategy that separates responsible gun owners from the NRA and the religious right.

              You can't make this stuff up.

              by David54 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:23:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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