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View Diary: Richard III’s Body Found? (310 comments)

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  •  To be fair to Mary, she had a hard life (9+ / 0-)

    She had to watch her mother tossed aside by her father and lose her right to the throne and be declared a bastard, she acquired one of the world's worst stepmothers in Ann Bolyen and then had to deal with constant attacks on her faith and the attempt by John Dudley to have her throne snatched from her in favor of Jane Grey (the ill-fated "Nine Days Queen," a real tragedy). So she had to deal with a lot.

    Mary's big problem (aside from her fanatical Catholicism) was her woeful political judgement. Especially bad was her marrying Phillip II of Spain, which really set the xenophobic English off against her and ended up losing England Calais (their last holding in France) when Phillip persuaded her to join a war against France. She did not make wise decisions and it really cost her.

    •  Elizabeth was also declared a bastard (9+ / 0-)

      Clear up to the day Mary died, Elizabeth was a dispensable person and had cause to fear for her life.  Even after she was crowned, whoever was pope at the time guaranteed heaven for anyone who assassinated her.

      You're correct about Mary's lack of judgment.  Not the brightest monarch who ever lived, and much too willing to let others make decisions for her.  Because of her religious fanaticism, I don't cut Mary any slack for having a difficult life; by comparison, Elizabeth had it much worse because of not only being declared a bastard but because her mother was called names on top of it, and she had to overcome the reality of her father killing her mother, probably over false charges (the two beheaded queens were first cousins, so the second one was also a relative of Elizabeth's).  There were better ways for Mary to deal with adversity than to listen to the popes and her mother.

      Poor Henry VIII.  [/snark]  He couldn't get a legitimate son, and of the two known illegitimate sons he sired with Bessie Blount and Mary Boleyn (elder sister of Anne Boleyn), both died young and without issue.

      Still, no matter how one views the Tudors, from Owen ap Meredith ap Tydier through to the death of Elizabeth I, they're interesting from a psychological perspective.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 04:20:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Henry did have (5+ / 0-)

        a legitimate son - Edward VI. He didn't live long, either.

        (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

        by PJEvans on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 04:58:01 PM PST

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        •  Ruled for six years, died of illness (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Puddytat

          A precocious lad and a fanatical Protestant who really got the Reformation going in England. But he also was dominated by warring nobles fighting to get his attention and therefore the power, first his uncles Edward and Thomas Seymour (both of who got beheaded) and then the English Machiavelli John Dudley, the Duke of Northumberland, who after Edward's death tried to shove Mary and Elizabeth out of the way and have their cousin Lady Jane Grey (the tragic "Nine Days Queen") take the throne as his puppet (he failed and was executed).

        •  Correct... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Puddytat

          Edward VI died of tuberculosis at the age of 15.

          He was dominated by his Seymour uncles since they were his "protectors" until he could reach a majority age.

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:11:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Poor Lady Jane Grey (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, citylights, Puddytat

      Killing her and her husband just seemed so unnecessary. What horrible people.

      Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

      by Betty Pinson on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 06:29:32 PM PST

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      •  Jane was sad, but not her husband (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        citylights, Puddytat

        Her husband was John Dudley's son and he was just as bad as his father.

        Jane, however, was very tragic. She had horrible parents who made her life a living hell and she had absolutely no desire to become queen or be made a pawn. And she would have been let go (Mary I was very fond of her and knew she'd been forced into the situation), but then her father launched another rebellion against Mary and Mary was forced by political pressure to have Jane executed. Thanks, Dad.

        Oh and Jane's mom didn't even bother attending her daughter's execution, reportedly too busy fucking some hot young servant.

        •  Interesting that her mother stepped aside (0+ / 0-)

          It's interesting to me that Jane Grey's mother Frances was actually the one who had the claim to the throne through descent. She stepped aside so that her husband could marry off her daughter to Dudley's son and the two of them could try to rule. I can't for the life of me figure out why she wasn't also put to death when her daughter was, as she continued to be the one who had a claim as long as she was alive.

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