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View Diary: My Journey as a 9/11 Republican Turned Modern Progressive (263 comments)

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  •  We made a lot more enemies around the world (15+ / 0-)

    and it caused a lot of our allies to not trust us. Bush was very, very unpopular around the world and with some of of our strongest allies, the people there hated him with a passion.  

    The world trusts and likes President Obama for the most part, our allies seem to embrace him and he was a very good reputation with many countries all over the globe.

    The wars also cost billions of dollars and families lost loved ones,  our troops came home with PTSD, loss of limbs and traumatic brain injury and more.

    Bush was nothing more than a bully and we became known for torture and that is very very Unamerican...totally wrong on all levels.

    Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

    by wishingwell on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 05:42:51 AM PST

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    •  That's not a narrative that I find convincing (0+ / 0-)

      There's a lot of pain from the wars, of course.

      But to say that allies don't trust us and this and that is not accurate. I would say that the benefits of our reputation have outweighed the short-term costs. I don't quite see that allies haven't trusted us as much, but international relations is a lot more complicated than that.

      You have to engage in deception, you have to engage in brinksmanship, you have to bluff, you have to do all kinds of things, but the US never lost any friends from the actions. I don't believe that for one second. And there's something to be said of the future where risks and balance might be different, and we have to show that we're a force to be reckoned with no matter how things shake out. Nice guys sometimes very much do finish last.

      Relations with Russia were already sour over our American consultants and bankers basically looting their new private economy.

      And i'm a lot more cynical about what makes the world go round, internationally we don't need to be JUST suckups. We need the Obamas just as much as we need the Bushes. It shows the different sides and parts of our society.

      There are other naitons and people who would slit our throats in a second if they had the power we have internationally. We have to be just as capable of those evils as tehy are.

      •  What is it with Libertarians? (9+ / 0-)

        When they're not busy being the smartest people in the room on economics they're suddenly the smartest person in the room when it comes to foreign policy.

        If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

        by Major Kong on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:55:47 AM PST

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      •  Please give an example (3+ / 0-)

        of when we were "suckups".  Please give an example where Obama was a "suckup".

        Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it true, is it necessary. Does it improve the silence. (Courtesy Kos)

        by Scioto on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 10:38:06 AM PST

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        •  As if we haven't sucked up to the Saudis (0+ / 0-)

          And made other bed mates for convenience in the future.

          Putting up with those chumps for their oil, when it was too complicated to invade them outright, is a form of "sucking up" i'd say, when their entire society went against our value system.

          And that goes back many many many decades.

          As far as Obama, he has spoken softly in a lot of areas, not apologetically, but merely as a way to say "hey, we're not that bad" and his name and his skin help deliver that message.

          Not necessarily a suckup, but a softer tone.

      •  Obama (4+ / 0-)

        is far from a suckup.  He's much more of a hawk than most people on this site like, myself included.

        I think America leads when it is a nation that arrests terrorists, put them on trial and then puts them in prison when they're convicted as opposed to just indiscriminately killing with drones or full blown ground wars.

        "I don't want a unicorn. I want a fucking pegasus. And I want it to carry a flaming sword." -mahakali overdrive

        by Silvia Nightshade on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 11:02:25 AM PST

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