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View Diary: Torture and the Dark Side of Zero Dark Thirty (58 comments)

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  •  Why did you insert the word "all" into (6+ / 0-)

    the comment before replying to it?

    "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

    by JesseCW on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:30:37 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Generalization (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy

      Yeah, I know I'm picking at nothing but saying "Americans LOVE ..." doesn't exclude me does it? Does it give me an option to be an exception?

      No it doesn't.

      Is "Americans LOVE eating puppies" really any different than "All Americans LOVE eating puppies".

      If I inserted the word "all" in my reply it merely demonstrates the inherent idiocy of most statements that begin with similar constructions. It's just painting with the broadest damn brush in the box.

      It's not my inclusion of "all" that is a problem-- it's the lack of a word like "some","most","many" ...

      So yeah, I've got enough problems trying to feel a bit patriotic without being a torture lover.

      By saying "Americans LOVE torture" I've been called a lover of torture. Well, ta' heck wid' that. And I tried to deal with it in my own hyperbolic way and then posed a serious question.

      Is the US government currently engaging in torture?

      “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

      by Marko the Werelynx on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:47:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The US Government is, as far as we know, (6+ / 0-)

        outsourcing torture to other Governments again.

        "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

        by JesseCW on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:49:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for that response. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Roadbed Guy

          Again though, all the links I've dredged up on the US outsourcing torture are even older than 2009; most from 2005-2006.

          Can you help point a clueless idiot in the right direction?

          “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

          by Marko the Werelynx on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:02:36 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Try google? (4+ / 0-)

            http://www.salon.com/...

            After interviewing 324 detainees held by Afghanistan’s National Directorate of Security (NDS) in 2011, the U.N. found that “torture is practiced systematically in a number of NDS detention facilities throughout Afghanistan.” At the Directorate’s prison in Kandahar one interrogator told a detainee before starting to torture him, “You should confess what you have done in the past as Taliban; even stones confess here.”

            Although such reports prompted both British and Canadian forces to curtail prisoner transfers, the U.S. military continues to turn over detainees to Afghan authorities — a policy that, commented the New York Times, “raises serious questions about potential complicity of American officials.”

            "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

            by JesseCW on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:19:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There ya go! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Roadbed Guy

              Well done! Serves me right for bowing out of Google's need to follow my every move. I hate it when the tinfoil hat slips down over my eyes. Ol' Bing just ain't up to speed yet.

              Thanks!

              “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

              by Marko the Werelynx on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:23:57 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The US has been doing this shit since WWII. (5+ / 0-)

                The "we'll just observe and tell them what questions to ask while they do the torturing" game, that is.

                The only "shocking" thing Bush did was officially authorize those in US employ to administer torture first hand.

                "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                by JesseCW on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 08:41:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And before that, too! (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poligirl

                  For example in the century-old Philippines war:

                  The American people were finally beginning to realize that pacification of the Philippines was not going to be a replay of the Spanish-American War. The Filipinos were poor, but they were not unsophisticated. They developed shadow governments, used an underground system to finance their insurgency — collecting donations and even taxes — and repeatedly surprised American troops with guerrilla attacks, killing a few men at a time and leaving the rest in a constant, exhausting state of vigilance. Enraged, the soldiers responded by employing the same tactics for which they had so recently criticized the Spanish. They burned whole villages, executed suspected guerrillas and felt justified in using any interrogation technique at hand, including the water cure.
                  from the New York Times (which apparently can't bring itself to call waterboarding "torture" - but what do you expect of Judith Millers' newspaper?)
                  •  We did it ourselves back then. It was ok, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    poligirl

                    because they were "savages".

                    Thankfully, "savages" are color coded so you can tell.  They're the brown ones.

                    The outsourcing game really got under way with the dawn of the cold war.  Before that we did our own torture to those who "deserved it".

                    "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                    by JesseCW on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:52:33 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  don't be so hard on him (her?) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JesseCW, poligirl

      I know that I for one DO love eating baby puppies!  And why not, what makes them any more special than baby chickens or baby veals?

      Or baby seals for that matter, mmm, mmm, mmm!!!   IMHO those total redeem Canada's Celine Dion-tarnished reputation for questionable exports.

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