Skip to main content

View Diary: We should all be forced to look at (182 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Who would impose the requirement? (6+ / 0-)

    Anyone selling guns.

    You want to buy a gun? You need to look at the pictures of what it can do to a flesh and blood person.
     

    It is time to #Occupy Media.

    by lunachickie on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:17:15 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  And how is that any different... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Neuroptimalian, mmacdDE

      ...from laws requiring a woman to view an ultrasound or a "here's why abortion is bad" fearmongering speech from a doctor before exercising her right to an abortion?

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:28:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  only the same if you give personhood to fetus (8+ / 0-)

        an abortion is something a woman does to herself

        what a gun does is to someone else

        "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

        by teacherken on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:35:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And those who want to criminalize abortion... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JohnnySacks, dov12348

          ...do think that fetuses are full-fledged human beings.

          Thus, they believe that a woman seeking an abortion should be forced to confront what they characterize as the consequences of her actions.

          What makes the idea that people trying to buy guns should be forced to look at pictures of dead children any different from that?

          In fact, I'd suggest that the case for forcing prospective gun owners to look at pictures of dead children is somewhat worse—since the death of the fetus is a result of every successful abortion, whereas dead children result from an extremely small percentage of gun purchases.

          For the record, I'm pro-choice and oppose state restrictions like forcing women to undergo ultrasounds or speeches. I also oppose the idea of forcing all prospective gun owners to look at pictures of dead children. I'm not seeing where an argument for the latter doesn't open up an argument for the former as well.

          "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

          by JamesGG on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:04:29 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  still differences that you ignore (4+ / 0-)

            pictures of aborted fetuses already readily available for anyone who wants to see them

            to date, there is no jurisdiction in the United States where the fetus is a person - even MS voted down a personhood amendment

            as of right now a woman in the 1st trimester has an absolute right to terminate a pregnancy

            even Scalia in his opinion in Heller acknowledged the government has the right to regulate gun ownership

            so the situations are not currently parallel

            and since neither of us is going to convince the other this will be my last response to you on this thread, not because of irritation - you offer cogent arguments for your position.  I simply have a limited amount of time for writing and for being online right now.  I appreciate your tone even though we strongly disagree.

            "We didn't set out to save the world; we set out to wonder how other people are doing and to reflect on how our actions affect other people's hearts." - Pema Chodron

            by teacherken on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:11:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Who said it had to be different? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NancyWH

        At any rate, teacherken explains to you why it's different.

        What was your point, again?

        It is time to #Occupy Media.

        by lunachickie on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:42:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My point is... (0+ / 0-)

          ...that if you're arguing that every decision a person makes should be accompanied by their being forced to view the most gruesome and horrific possible consequence of that decision, then that logic must hold for women exercising their right to an abortion as well as for people exercising their right to purchase a gun.

          What those arguing for forcing gun-buyers to view pictures haven't done thus far is show how the two situations aren't analogous without referencing your own opinions on the two issues—in other words, the argument hasn't really gone beyond "forcing gun owners to see pictures is right but forcing women seeking abortions to see pictures is wrong, because I oppose gun ownership and support abortion rights."

          I'm not seeing how consistency doesn't require that if you're arguing that prospective gun owners be forced to view gruesome pictures of dead children, you don't have an argument against the idea of women seeking abortions being forced to view gruesome abortion pictures or ultrasounds, or to hear a "you're killing your baby" speech from the doctor.

          "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

          by JamesGG on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:11:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am pretty sure (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            1BQ

            it was deemed constitutional for said abortion clinics to shove said ugly photos in my face if I happen to walk by as long as they don't block the sidewalk (and stay a certain distance away from the entrance of a clinic).

             I, personally, don't like either of these things--but it appears one of them is ok with the law.

            Why not the other?

            I keep waiting for you to answer that, but you just seem to be making argument just for the sake of doing so.

            It is time to #Occupy Media.

            by lunachickie on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 01:45:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not saying it should be illegal. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zett
              I am pretty sure it was deemed constitutional for said abortion clinics to shove said ugly photos in my face if I happen to walk by as long as they don't block the sidewalk (and stay a certain distance away from the entrance of a clinic).
              First, I think you mean "abortion opponents," not "abortion clinics."

              Second, you're right that it is constitutional for them to do that. It's disgusting, but it's constitutional, so long as they're not violating your rights, physically harming you, or blocking access to an abortion clinic.

              I, personally, don't like either of these things--but it appears one of them is ok with the law.

              Why not the other?

              I'm not arguing that it should be illegal to show people gruesome pictures of dead children. As long as the child's parents approve of the release of their child's picture, I think it should be perfectly legal to display it under most conditions. (I think we should treat such pictures like other material intended for mature audiences, restricting their display in places where children could conceivably see them without their parents having approved of it first.)

              However, you took it a step further and argued that it should not only be legal to display such pictures, but that those who want to exercise their legal right to buy a firearm should be forced to look at those pictures.

              And aside from your agreeing with gun safety regulations and disagreeing with the criminalization of abortion, I'm not seeing how you can say that gun-buyers should be forced to view pictures of dead children while not also defusing any argument you have against right-wingers' desire to force women seeking abortions to view gruesome pictures or ultrasounds.

              "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

              by JamesGG on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:06:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (154)
  • Community (61)
  • Environment (36)
  • Culture (34)
  • Memorial Day (31)
  • Republicans (31)
  • 2016 (28)
  • Elections (26)
  • Civil Rights (25)
  • Bernie Sanders (25)
  • Science (23)
  • Media (22)
  • Climate Change (22)
  • Education (22)
  • Labor (21)
  • Spam (21)
  • GOP (20)
  • Law (20)
  • Rescued (19)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (16)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site