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View Diary: Bill O'Reilly: NBC ignoring drone story to protect Obama (80 comments)

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  •  Perhaps it's not such a huge story b/c many Dems.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sweatyb

    ...support the military's use of drones.

    They did when Bush was president.

    And they continue to do so now that Obama is president.

    And frankly, I believe that any Dem who wants to slash the defense budget should support drones, as they are MUCH MORE cost effective than manned fighter jets or special forces excursions.

    Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

    by PatriciaVa on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 12:27:24 PM PST

    •  That is one of the least impressive arguments (5+ / 0-)

      I've seen for the use of drones. It is marginally better than some of the "so what, they're terrists" arguments I've seen from (alleged) democrats here.

      •  21st Century warfare (0+ / 0-)

        It's a hell-of-a-lot cheaper than invading countries.

        The liberal group think that drones are massively killing innocents ignores the stories that the terrorists are killing people and dumping them at drone sites to inflate the body count.

        The terrorists fervently hope that drone warfare is eliminated so that they can gather in secret to plot their nefarious schemes without worrying about what comes through the front door.

        The American moral issue that liberals will tie themselves in knots over is whether Americans abroad who are part of a terrorist operation can be assassinated without due process.  I'm OK with it personally.  As Gus said in Lonesome Dove when he had Jake strung up to the tree.  "You ride with an outlaw you die with an outlaw."

        •  what happens when they get drones too? /nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rube Goldberg
        •  Lessee, Khaddafi actually did this and the (0+ / 0-)

          journalists who were bused to the site immediately noticed that the damage to the walls of the buildings were from AK fire and then noted that the dead also appeared to have died from AK fire, some with a coup de grace shot behind the ear.

          However I cannot find this to be true in Pakistan and Afghanistan so maybe you have some sort of citation to support this allegation?

          (BTW Lonesome Dove was fiction as are most representations of the "Wild West" we see from Hollywood)

        •  We don't abandon our core principles (0+ / 0-)

          because the nature of warfare changes.

          Due process is the bedrock principle that separates societies that at least attempt to have some semblance of accountability and justice from those that many in this country like to point out are "less free" than us.

          This is a dangerous road to go down.  The terrorists won't win because they kill us.  They will win because they convince our leaders and the public that we should redefine not only our laws, but our core constitutional principles.  

          No executive official should be able to unilaterally decide that an American citizen can be executed without even minimal oversight from another branch of government.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has very little understanding of our constitution.

        •  And some Americans wonder why we're thought (0+ / 0-)

          of as a bit daft, thoughtless, careless and blood thirsty.

      •  more please! (0+ / 0-)

        let's get into a pissing match about who's the best Democrat.

    •  I shudder when people use war and cost effective (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BOHICA, lenzy1000

      in the same sentence.  It reminds me of any number of mistakes made during the VN war on the basis of cost effectiveness or Westmoreland's pet project of body counts so the beancounters could do their thing crunching how much it cost to kill a VC.

      Since when is a kill rate of 10 civilians for every bad guy zapped cost effective?

      •  Such thinking produced the term (0+ / 0-)

        "collateral damage" when what we mean is "dead people."

        If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. Thomas Paine

        by WestCider on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:37:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  and also the conundrum of "sometimes to save (0+ / 0-)

          a village, you must destroy it".  Irony of My Lai was not that it shocked the American conscience but that there were other My Lais that never hit the front pages.  One Delta operation was characterized as "one My Lai a month"

      •  It's the most cost effective way (0+ / 0-)

        To get the whole world to band together to hate america and plot it's destruction, people who say ooohhh we're
        fighting terrorists are completely ignorant that many times
        we are targeting based on signature strikes in which we only know that there is an unknown group getting together, and random bridal parties and funerals are attacked. young men killed are presumed guilty just because they are young men.
        We must stop bombing countries we're not at war with before the war comes back to us.  Read more at an unbiased source:
        dronewatch

    •  brave, but foolish (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PatriciaVa

      I salute your bravery in making this point.

      The problem with your argument is that many here who want to slash the defense budget want to slash it to zero.  Drown the military in the bathtub, so to speak.

      Drones being safer, more effective, and far cheaper than other more conventional strikes is irrelevant.  There's not much call for a more efficient military here.

      •  if we are to argue efficiency, can we factor (0+ / 0-)

        in "collateral damage"?  The bin Laden operation proved we can still do things old school with far less collateral damage so now the argument becomes at what point is collateral damage counted in the expense column?

        •  not factoring in Afghanistan or Iraq? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PatriciaVa

          the process of killing Bin Laden took a long time and the cost was mind boggling.

          the number of casualties in that effort is easily in the hundreds of thousands.

          •  actually Iraq and Afghanistan had little to do (0+ / 0-)

            with bin Laden.  He was never in Iraq and our incursion there used him as a fig leaf.  He left Afghanistan after Tora Bora and evidently remained in Pakistan until killed.  At the time he left Tora Bora for his hidey hole in Pakistan, the Afghan War was still a proxy fight with the opposition Afghan groups doing the heavy lifting.

            The US expansion of the war transformed it from a civil war to a client war where we are propping up a client government against an insurgency.  In other words we have changed the civil war into an invasion in many Afghan eyes and transformed our role from liberators to invaders.

            However if you can produce citation supporting your assertions that Iraq and Afghanistan was about bin Laden, please provide it.  ITMT, to quote GWB from 2002,

            " BUSH: "We haven't heard from him in a long time. ... Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. ... I just don't spend that much time on him... we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run."

    •  We could also just oppose wars of choice. -nt- (0+ / 0-)

      "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." -Tony Benn (-6.38,-6.36)

      by The Rational Hatter on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:56:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Good one! (0+ / 0-)

      I also believe any democrat that would like to slash law enforcement budget should be in favor of shooting suspects that are associated with people contemplating jaywalking on site, as the cost of prosecutions, and hiring traffic cops is too high.

      There is obviously no other way to keep are streets safe from those who would think about breaking our laws.  

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