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View Diary: While you're listening to politicians argue about guns, check out how many Americans have died (123 comments)

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  •  So you think suicides should be included. (0+ / 0-)

    Glad we settled that.

    "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

    by rigcath on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:27:52 PM PST

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    •  I don't include them ... (0+ / 0-)

      because there are many alternatives to accomplishing suicide.  Removing guns from the possibilities will not lower the numbers in the slightest.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 05:44:20 PM PST

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      •  Well, you're incorrect about that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BeninSC

        From a recent study on gun violence across seven states:

        Of all suicide attempts, suicide by firearm accounted for only 5%, while poisoning/cutting/piercing accounted for 85%. However, the fatality rate for attempts varies wildly. Overall, 13% of all attempts were successful, while 91% of gun attempts were successful and only 3% of the poisoning/cutting/piercing attempts were fatal. Suffocation/hanging (6% of all attempts) was successful 80% of the time.
        People use guns to kill themselves because it's by far the easiest, most effective method. The next-most lethal method is 11% less successful (and takes significantly more effort). We should be trying to reduce the number of suicides, not just fatalistically giving up and saying, "oh well, suicidal people are just going to do everything they can to kill themselves, so we shouldn't even try to prevent it."

        "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

        by rigcath on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 07:24:57 AM PST

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      •  See my previous comment re: Harvard Study (0+ / 0-)

        There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

        by OHeyeO on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:08:36 PM PST

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    •  I think certain suicides should be included. (0+ / 0-)

      Correct.

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 06:21:35 AM PST

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      •  Suicidal thinking (and, I daresay the act itself) (0+ / 0-)

        is a symptom of an underlying mental illness. Any reasonable person would consider someone who's depressed enough to be seriously considering suicide as incapable of making such a decision rationally--or, to use your phrase, "mentally incompetent."

        "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

        by rigcath on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 07:00:56 AM PST

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        •  I would disagree. nt (0+ / 0-)

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 07:02:23 AM PST

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        •  That is absolutely not true. Most people contemp- (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OHeyeO, jakewaters

          lating suicide are very rational but they are in a state of deep despair. That does not render them mentally incompetent or mentally ill. And many suicides committed with guns are impulsive. If the gun were not there, often times that impulse passes. Suicides are NOT accidental deaths. It is by definition self-homicide. Medical examiner's have five manner's of death to choose from based on their findings at autopsy: Natural, Accident, Suicide, Homicide or Undetermined

          You don't get to arbitrarily decide to pass your holier than thou judgement on which death's related to gun violence count and which one's aren't worth even trying to prevent.

          "An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity" Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr..

          by mindara on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 04:20:54 PM PST

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