Skip to main content

View Diary: There is nothing more that can be said (191 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Respectfully, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive, noway2

    pathos is a far more dangerous tool than firearms ever could be.  We suffer as a society from excessive appeals to our passions -- Bush and Cheney's illegal and factually unjustified Iraq war and descent into the madness of "justified" war crimes are illustrative.

    The avoidance of censorship may result in more visceral emotional responses and receptivity to argument, but factual, legal and ethical grounds of persuasion are always better than demagoguery.

    •  Thank you for your thoughtful reply (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ancblu, Dogs are fuzzy

      Pathos is certainly the most powerful tool for propaganda as well. I think that's what you're saying. It's also been a profound factor in the preservation of cultural memory, as mentioned in regard to the Holocaust museums, Abu Ghraib, and Ethiopia, as mentioned. So it's naturally a double-edged sword. All rhetorical appeals are. All of them. They all can be used for good or ill. What sets pathos apart is that it's elicits an emotional reaction. The question is really which reaction people need to have in the matter of gun control. I would say they need to have an emotional reaction, an informed reaction in regard to data and information, and also a credible source.

      So all three are quite requisite to create a rounded view of this picture.

      This is why I advocate for diaries which present what some have called "tedious detail" (logos) as well as ones like this which provide images of victims (pathos).

      Ethos-based diaries are a little harder here but something like the President's stance of Sen. Gillibrand's statements would qualify.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 08:16:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The dichotomy or "double-edged sword" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SwedishJewfish

        you describe is certainly true ... which reveals the  extraordinary power of pathos that you and I both recognize.  

        With respect to pathos, it can be evoked equally by either side in this polarizing debate.  Fear and anger are the impulses unleashed ... with a predictable fight (or flee) response to assaults on matters perceived essential to our self-identity. The pro-2A groups are certainly very skilled and effective in using appeal to emotion and I suppose it is not unreasonable to fight fire with fire, however corrosive.

        As a personal matter, I am much more inclined toward ethos as the pathway to constructive resolution in this great debate.

        In another sub-thread you emphasized the asymmetric impact of gun violence on racial minorities and the under-privileged. Even when comparing international firearm homicide rates (where good data is available), the clearest predictor of increased firearm violence is prevalent economic disadvantage.

        If the control/rights debate is best understood on these terms, the moral imperative lies with redressing the societal inequalities as the more effective and just solution.

        If you are so inspired to diary these issues -- based on your earlier thread comment -- I believe this would be a very important contribution to this topic on DK and I would enjoy participating in it.

    •  I would argue that pictures in this case are facts (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ancblu, mindara

      that too few are aware of.  They will provoke an emotional reaction, they SHOULD provoke an emotional reaction. But that doesn't change the fact the so few have any idea of what destruction was done to these innocent children and their teachers.  It's horrific.  It's real.  It's fact.  It's not known in any real way to the vast majority of Americans.

      We avoid reality.  We avoid truth.  We live in a bubble.  Pictures have broken through that bubble when we needed them to.  All it takes is one, like the Napalm girl, Kim Phuc.  

      The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

      by Back In Blue on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:37:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with you completely -- the privileged (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SwedishJewfish, Back In Blue

        in our society live, for the most part, in a very sanitized and safe world.  We should rip away the veil that covers so much in this country that protects and serves only the few.

        This is also particularly true in international matters, in which the media and our lack of education and interest conspire to leave us blissfully ignorant of the harsh realities we inflict on others.

        Those who are dying in droves are not just the innocent children and teachers of Sandy Hook.  The true dimensions of our propensity to certain forms of national violence are far wider and deeper than we will find by looking only there.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site