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View Diary: This response ends the debate on gay Scouts. (176 comments)

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  •  THAT'S the reason the Boy Scouts were founded??? (9+ / 0-)

    Well in that case, the hell with the entire organization.

    •  Makes them sound like the Hitler Youth, no? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bisbonian, The Marti, Calamity Jean

      Not wanting to go Godwin here, but really, if it's all about funneling young men into the military, I don't see how it's not the same thing.

      •  Only if the military is equivalent to the Nazis (3+ / 0-)
        •  Well, admittedly (0+ / 0-)

          Nazis were a political party based on paramilitaries, not the military, but there was an awful lot of party overlap with the German military as well.  Perhaps I should have said the Hitler Youth resembled Baden Powell's group, since the Boy Scouts came first, did they not?  Recruit them young, get them accustomed to a hierarchical pseudo-military structure, and prep them for adult participation in military or paramilitary groups, and subservience to authority.

          Seems pretty similar to me, whether or not you want to claim actual 'equivalence'.

        •  Only if the Empire is eqivalent to the Reich (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Good soldiers do what good soldiers do ... on command, without hesitation before -- without remorse afterward.

          If they serve an enlightened and legitimate State ... they kill people and break things in a good cause.  If they serve a "Psycopathic God" ... they commit gratuitous atrocities.  Put "Vietnam" somwhere along a continuum between the two extremes.

          From INSIDE the Uniform it's sometimes difficult to figure out which is which. Besides, "figuring things out" is  practice "strongly discouraged" by the officers in charge, anyway.  

          I knew one guy who actually HAD been in the Hitler Youth.   ...  The surprising thing about his "war stories" is how unwarlike and how "not-Nazi" they were.

           Basically, there came a time at which the German Scouts added a NDSP armband and a small dagger to their uniform ... and began to idolize their Leader -- "you know who."  But it was still the same Baden-Powell inspired program of games, hiking and outdoor living they had originally joined up for.

          From Wolf's point of view,  the "political indoctrination" was no different from what was being said and celebrated in public schools and church pulpits.  

          The nationalism and the antisemitism were already well-established cultural values when Ugly Adolph was just an NCO lecturer for the "Enlightenment Corps."  HE did not have to convince working class Germans that "The Jews are Our Misfortune" ... he only had to learn that the way to bring people into the Party was to put THAT on their posters rather than, for example, "Iron Cross Hero  Adolph Hitler Speaks Tonight !"

          In both England and Germany the Jingoism and Militarism were just characteristics of a better-than-average citizen.

      •  That's what my dad always thought. (0+ / 0-)

        He came from an autocratic nation and when, as I grew up, my mom was adamant that I become a boy scout, he was mortified and indignant.

        They had a lot of fights about that. He saw it as the youth wing of the U.S. conservative ideological apparatus, and was very disturbed by the paramilitarism, the endless shooting and survival training, and the incredible stench of testosterone in the air.

        The argument between them was settled by the treatment that I received during my time as a boy scout, which put my life at risk more than once.

        -9.63, 0.00
        "Liberty" is deaf, dumb, and useless without life itself.

        by nobody at all on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:47:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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