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View Diary: Last Night, the Second Holocaust Didn't Happen (49 comments)

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  •  BDS (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alain2112, Diane Gee, poco, Aunt Martha

    is about equality. That is the overt agenda and the hidden agenda. BDS says nothing about  one or two states and in fact has adherents and organizers who have differing views on that. But one thing that both one and two-staters can agree with is the notion that Palestinians are oppressed and that they have the right to fight for their rights using non-violent methods. The struggle is now between an existing system that upholds Jewish privilege and a vision of a future that says that Palestinians deserve equality and justice and that all people should live in equality. The opposition to this principle is composed of those who wish to retain their privileges at the expense of Palestinians.

    The ironic/tragic thing about your post is that the alleged destruction of Israel that you project upon BDS was done to Palestine in 1947/8. That was a fundamentally racist act. But BDS is not about tit-for-tat. It's fundamental premise is equality for all. BDS does not seek to drive out Jews, in parallel to what was done to Palestinians, rather is seeks equality for all. So the choice here is between a situation of continued ethno-religious privilege with the associated inequality, injustice or suffering or a future where all are equal and treated that way.

    The other ironic/tragic thing about your post is that implicit within it is the right of return for Jews after centuries of exile but not the right of those who lived and were born there. This is what Israel has done and that is another fundamentally racist act, as is the associated language of 'demographic threat' and 'transfer' that one reads about regularly in Israelis press and discourse. It's time to end these injustices.

    Read Judith Butler's remarks again, she offers a vision of a future that is based on compassion, not fear. I would add that it's time for Israelis to accept that they got off to a bad start in the neighbourhood but they have it within their power to change that, to atone and start anew and have a future without walls and without fear.

    •  BDS and "right of return" are about No Israel (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hey338Too

      And that's why they will fail.

    •  So is BDS also focused on the treatment of... (0+ / 0-)

      ... Palestinians in Arab countries?  You stated above:

      But BDS is not about tit-for-tat. It's fundamental premise is equality for all.
      Yet from what I've read, there are any number of countries in the Middle East that treat Palestinians in horrific ways.

      According to Wikipedia:

      Over 400,000 Palestine refugees live in Lebanon, who are deprived of certain basic rights. Violating Human rights, Lebanon barred Palestine refugees from 73 job categories including professions such as medicine, law and engineering. They are not allowed to own property, and even need a special permit to leave their refugee camps. Unlike other foreigners in Lebanon, they are denied access to the Lebanese health care system. The Lebanese government refused to grant them work permits or permission to own land. The number of restrictions has been mounting since 1990.
      1991 Palestinian expulsion from Kuwait took place at the end of the Gulf War, when Kuwait expelled some 450,000 Palestinian Arabs.[36] Kuwait expulsion policy, which led to this exodus, was a response to alignment of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and the PLO with the dictator Saddam Hussein, who had earlier invaded Kuwait. The expulsion took place during one week in March 1991, following Kuwait's liberation from Iraqi occupation.
      A large number of Palestinians were part of the Syrian refugees, who fled Syria as a result of the Syrian civil war. The number of Palestinian Syrians among the Syrian refugees was in thousands out of nearly half a million Syrian refugees, though no exact data is available.

      Jordan and Lebanon has turned away Palestinian refugees attempting to flee the humanitarian crises in Syria. Jordan has absorbed 126,000 Syrian refugees, but Palestinians fleeing Syria are placed in a separate refugee camp, under stricter conditions and are banned from entering Jordanian cities.[38]

      So in the interest of equity for all, are these other countries also being targeted by BDS?

      I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

      by Hey338Too on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 11:09:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There is no defence for inequality anywhere (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alain2112, poco, Aunt Martha, Diane Gee

        and I myself have been active in movements to pressure the Lebanese state to end injustices against Palestinians and Palestinians have many supporters in Syria, Jordan etc that are trying to put pressure on their governments to do the right thing. But Palestinians would not be in this situation if they had not been driven from their homes in the first place and the way to end their suffering is to allow them to return home.

        •  I know many Palestinians (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco, Aunt Martha, Diane Gee, alain2112

          who are citizens in the countries they live in - Syria, Jordan, Lebanon as well as the US who are treated just like their fellow citizens who have still been ethnically cleansed and dispossessed by Israel and want to return to their homes and lands. Furthermore, the implication you make the I would support or ignore the mistreatment of Palestinians anywhere is something that I find offensive.

          •  It seems that BDS would have an easier time... (0+ / 0-)

            ... proving their effectiveness if they went after "the low hanging fruit" of the situations you mention.  Seriously, if citizens of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or even the US who are of Palestinian descent are being treated in the manner you describe - why wouldn't BDS be aggressively agitating against those countries?

            I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

            by Hey338Too on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 01:11:45 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  But what about BDS? (0+ / 0-)

          The situation you are referring to has been occurring in these other countries for the exact same amount of time as it has in the country being targeted by BDS, right?

          One could argue that the injustices being perpetrated against the Palestinians in these other countries is actually worse because the populations being affected are much larger than what existed in the late 1940's - or even the current populations of the West Bank and Gaza.  Isn't there a double standard being applied here?

          I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

          by Hey338Too on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 12:53:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Or one could argue that these (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Diane Gee, alain2112

            injustices have at their root the Palestinian diaspora that was caused by the Nakba.  Hence, BDS is focused on addressing the root of the problem.  As fire bad has already noted, there are other movements that are addressing the concerns that you're raising.

            In fact, it's quite unremarkable for different groups to be focused on different specific problems, even while individual members of said groups might also be working on related problems elsewhere.  So, to answer your question: no, there is no double standard being applied here.

            •  Seriously? (0+ / 0-)
              ...these injustices have at their root the Palestinian diaspora that was caused by the Nakba.
              You are blaming Israel for the way that these countries are treating the Palestinians?  

              As progressives we should have one set of rules.  If BDS wants to apply them to Israel they should be applied to these other countries as well.  Otherwise there is a double standard, and that's not a progressive solution.

              I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

              by Hey338Too on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 06:39:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Seriously? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Diane Gee
                You are blaming Israel for the way that these countries are treating the Palestinians?  
                Um, no.  But as progressives we should have a  commitment to understand the root of issues, as that is the way to resolve them.  So, if you want to deflect from that in terms of Israel, your obvious double standard is showing.  And, as you say, that's not a progressive solution.
                •  The "root" of the issue occurred 65 years ago... (0+ / 0-)

                  ... BDS is the strategy now.  BDS is singling out one country when the problem is happening in multiple places on a larger scale.  Bringing us back to the double standard - no BDS for Lebanon or Syria or any other country, but using it on Israel.

                  I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

                  by Hey338Too on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 08:02:37 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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