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  •  This bears repeating: (4.00)
    Don't get offended for other people's sake, and don't get offended because someone said something in a way that you personally wouldn't have said it.  People who are offended are perfectly capable of speaking out for themselves.  I see them do it all the time.  

    Well said. Read it, memorize it.

    •  Hmmmm--well, I know plenty of women (4.00)
      who've been hurt and silenced by being called "bitch" and "cunt," and I will not stand silent when people, through ignorance, perpetuate hateful speech. Sorry, but it is very important.

      ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

      by bibble on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 02:59:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i agree (4.00)
        you don't have to be Mexican to be not be offended when somebody calls a guy a "wetback" or something derogatory.

        this "it ain't my business" thing is soooo Republican.

        Why should we care about Iraqi children who are being killed?

        Why should we care about American soldiers who aren't our skin color in Iraq?

        Why did we not care about those black people in Rwanda?!?!

        B/c they should've spoken up & said something.  Why should we have to do anything??

        •  Ears Boxed (none)
          When my grandfather was a little kid, toward the end of the potato famine, he got his ears boxed for asking his father to "Take me to Boston Harbor to watch the Greenhorns come in."

          Until that fateful day, Grandpa had no idea that "Greenhorn" was a derogatory term for the Irish. Our family had arrived in the US during the Civil War.

          It was an early lesson in respectful language for Grandpa. A lesson that has been handed down for 3 generations, and will hopefully continue when the next generation has kids.

          Beware the everyday brutality of the averted gaze.

          by mataliandy on Sat Jul 09, 2005 at 01:04:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  And what of despicable people who deserve to (none)
        be hurt and silenced because of their behavior and are women?

        What about disgusting pig-headed men who deserve to be hurt and silenced by a verbal smack-down?

        Neither gender gets a free pass if the person deserves a good... "stupid cunt" or "fuck you dickhead".

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

        by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 03:07:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But that's not the sort of speech we're talking (4.00)
          about here--the discussion is about taking a derogatory term that refers to a whole group of people (or their anatomy!), and then using that word to "stand for" something negative--cowardice, weakness, whatever.  So then you perpetuate some sort of verbal equation that associates the negative quality with that group of people.  

          ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

          by bibble on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 03:23:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  so criticize their behavior (4.00)
          not their gender.  I don't see what's so difficult about that concept.

          *Springsteen for President*

          by hrh on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 03:33:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Its not a difficult concept... (none)
            and that is what such pejorative are directed at... the persons behavior... not their gender (in either example).

            I don't see what's so difficult about that concept.

            cheers,

            Mitch Gore

            Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

            by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 03:35:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the pejoratives are based on gender (none)
              and/or their sexuality.  That's uncalled-for.

              *Springsteen for President*

              by hrh on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 04:35:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am well aware of what they are based on. (none)
                But to extrapolate that it is a disparagement of gender or sexuality as an axiom is flawed. You could say that almost all latin or romance languages are sexist since they take masculine and feminine forms, and are inherent in the language themselves.

                Because I or some woman would view and call some obnoxious person who is a female a cunt, does not mean that all women are cunts, or that there is something inherently derogatory about women because one woman is obnoxious and a gendered pejorative if used.

                cheers,

                Mitch Gore

                Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 05:09:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I confess I don't get what you're not getting (none)
                  about this.  "Cunt" refers to female genitalia; using "cunt" to refer to someone who is heartily disliked equates female genitalia to something heartily disliked--ergo, female genitalia are being referred to as something heartily disliked.  Feels like you're just arguing to argue.

                  ...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron...H.L. Mencken

                  by bibble on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 05:23:58 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  thank you (none)
                    for saying what I was about to say.

                    *Springsteen for President*

                    by hrh on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 05:39:09 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Bitch isn't... however (none)
                    and that would have been a better example to use (especially since that is the word that started this meta discussion).

                    Again, I get it perfectly well. You don't seem to be getting what I am talking about.

                    To equate bitch or cunt as an axiom to apply to females as a category, is as flawed and extrapolation as equating dick to be an axiom to apply to any and all penises, hence all males.

                    It is spurious leap.

                    cheers,

                    Mitch Gore

                    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                    by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 05:40:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  BTW... You presume I don't get something here. (none)
                    I get what you and many others are saying, so to confess that you don't get what I am not getting is a flawed assumption from the outset.

                    cheers,

                    Mitch Gore

                    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

                    by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 05:43:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Sometimes it's intended to hurt (none)
        And, when I finally do tell my wife what I really think of her--on the day I can finally leave--I wouldn't be surprised if both of those words pass my lips. Because they apply.

        "Don't call yourself religious, not with that blood on your hands"--Little Steven Van Zandt

        by ChurchofBruce on Wed Jun 01, 2005 at 03:29:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  This might also bear repeating and memorizing. (none)
      This I believe to be the privilege and the burden of all of us who deem ourselves bound by allegiances and loyalties which are broader and deeper than nationalism and which go beyond our nation's self-defined goals and positions. We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for the victims of our nation and for those it calls "enemy," for no document from human hands can make these humans any less our brothers.

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