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View Diary: When a Fantasy Becomes a Nightmare (97 comments)

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  •  There is no way (37+ / 0-)

    to justify the killings. None.
    I read the manifesto earlier today. I have empathy for a man who seems to have run out of options in his own mind, and feels that he can do nothing more than embark on a suicide run.
    I only wish that he had not chosen violence begotten from earlier violence.
    This is another instance of saying that, as a nation, we need to address what we can do to reduce our need to harm one another. And Dorner brings up some really salient points regarding racism, misogyny, and personal pride; there is an infection deep in the tissues of our country, and our world that seems to allow some to believe that they may do wrong unto others and be rewarded.

    "On a normal dog day, I can sit still for hours on end with no effort." enzo, The Art of Racing in the Rain

    by rebereads on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 11:48:40 AM PST

    •  Yep & I Hope They Can Get Him Alive and Do (34+ / 0-)

      emotional and brain health studies to see where he stands in that department.

      The Texas university tower shooter of the 60's was found to have a serious brain tumor and had been having increasing trouble controlling his thoughts and behaviors in the weeks before his shooting spree.

      Dormer can be an emotionally or mentally ill mass killer and yet also have made valid points. I think if you're mass killing people that aren't posing a threat to you, it's almost definitional that you're at least emotionally ill.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 11:56:43 AM PST

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      •  precisely, while many mental illnesses have (11+ / 0-)

        no apparent organic genesis, in other cases, mental and/or physical deficits can occur following trauma, seizures, CVAs and other insults to the brain.
        We are slowly learning this as veterans return with concussional damage from IEDs, where damage is caused even to individuals several meters away from the actual blast or buffered by layers of armor as in a vehicle.

      •  On the tumor, etc: (7+ / 0-)

        From this:

        The consensus among doctors, however, was that the tumor was likely not responsible for Whitman's behavior due to its size and location.
        Also from the link, he had dexedrine on him at time of death, but "the autopsy was unable to establish if he had consumed any drugs prior to the shooting" because he had been embalmed prior to the autopsy and there were no fluids remaining to test for drugs.

        The link does go into a lot of detail about stressful events and conditions in his life, though. Whether any of that can inform us about the present case remains to be seen. For that reason I am hopeful that Dorner will be taken alive.

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 12:46:08 PM PST

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      •  Wasn't Dorner (2+ / 0-)

        in Iraq or Afghanistan?

        I wonder if PTSD could have played a role in this.

        •  From his manifesto (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          he claims to have been getting into fights since he was a kid, always justified of course, and calls out a number of people who he says lied about him.

          He sees himself as a hero, righting the wrongs of evil people, with violence.

          Claims that the LAPD is the reason his military career is ending. But we don't know how many violent incidents or incidents of poor judgment happened in the military. He was an officer, a captain, according to the picture, a company commander, according his manifesto.

      •  But what does this say about the entire colonial (11+ / 0-)

        system of global capitalism and the system of Empire dating back really several thousand years?:

        I think if you're mass killing people that aren't posing a threat to you, it's almost definitional that you're at least emotionally ill.
        I sanction no mass killings at all. Yet our entire global world, historically, has been embroiled in killing people who pose no threat other than to various economic interests -- dating back some thousands of years but worsening through heavily colonial trade periods.

        I suppose many nations are emotionally quite ill. The difference is that they're sanctified by someone in power or another. Still, plenty of dead bodies are the result.

        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 04:09:41 PM PST

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        •  "W" re Iraq: (8+ / 0-)
          I think if you're mass killing people that aren't posing a threat to you, it's almost definitional that you're at least emotionally ill.
          Several hundred thousand people, up to a million, were killed for basically no reason. A civilized society plunged into decades of civil war (more to come, for sure).  Educated, functioning society with education for women nearly thrown back to the stone age. For no reason.

          Dorner illuminates a lot of things, which may be part of his demented intention or it may be just a sidelight of his involvement in the long-lasting slaughter that is Iraq. A million people and still counting?

          Who knows what's really going on, but LAPD doesn't exactly have a stellar record either. And their latest actions in nearly killing three innocent people on purpose and shooting up houses up and down streets with their wild gunfire hardly shows professionalism.

          The way the bullets hit so much - trees, door frames, houses, etc - up and down the street, it is like they weren't even aiming their shots at all. Disgusting.

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:47:40 PM PST

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    •  my first thought was ... (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jakedog42, DvCM, melo, shypuffadder, MKinTN, Chi, bewild

      only in hollywood!  this is a bad movie script unwritten (as of yet) - it is someone who is so divorce from reality acting out his fantasy view of the world he lives within.

      the scary thing is that hollywood glorifies the wronged outlier (think samuel jackson holding hostages) - this disturbed person had many "role models" to follow.

      i wonder how much writing is done with an eye to consequences - i do think that all the violent imagery distills our real connection to those around us.  that this insane person killed the daughter (and her friend) of one of the police heads shows that, imho.

      the adam lanzas of the world all could not distinguish reality from fantasy - otherwise, how could they do what they have done - in malls, theatres, schools, on the streets.

      we have a nation filled with people unable to relate - who are emotionally disconnected from empathy.  we are in trouble - and i don't know how to "fix" it - but we sure better start trying.

      teaching compassion - true compassion - and empathy - and understanding at the earliest level of childhood development is a beginning... i truly don't know if it can be fixed once the child has grown up.

      how do you teach another what it feels like to experience pain and suffering?  how do you stop that individual's pain that drives him to act in a manner that dorner has done?  

      i don't know - but i hope we can find out how before it is too late!

      EdriesShop Is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?

      by edrie on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 04:17:00 PM PST

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    •  The guy is just nuts... (0+ / 0-)

      He killed the daughter of an ex-police captain who represented him at his disciplinary hearing.  How does that make sense?  If anything that guy was on his side, even if it was just because it was his job to be.  Yet, Dorner turns around and kills his daughter and her fiance'?

      There is no justification for what he has done, or what he is doing.  I don't even care what happened in his past.  Maybe he was treated unjustly, or maybe not.  Plenty of people are treated unjustly and yet they don't decide to go around killing people.  Nothing in his past excuses his actions which are entirely reprehensible.  

      I think Dorner is highly mentally ill.  He perceives all of these enemies and feels he is right to lash out violently against them, but his judgement is completely warped.  If his relationship with his sister and mother was ruined, it was probably due to his own actions, not because of the LAPD.  If he was truly treated unjustly, they would no doubt have sided with him.  

      I think was probably happened is he went off the deep end and became totally unstable, thus costing his relationship with his family.  He's blaming everything on the LAPD when the problem is he's actually suffering from some sort of mental illness that has made him difficult or impossible to deal with.  

      It's possible he may not even be completely responsible for his actions at this point, not that it makes anything he's done better.  

      I will agree that his firing seems kind of suspicious.  It seems like that shouldn't have been enough for him to be fired, but it was after a pattern of basically screwing up and not being able to cut it as a police officer.  In any case, that has all been rendered completely irrelevant by his current actions.  I don't care if they fired him for completely racist reasons, his response is not justified.  

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