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View Diary: Iowa Anti-Choicers Admit They Want to Imprison Women for Abortion (21 comments)

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  •  I would indite the man too (2+ / 0-)
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    LilithGardener, Noddy

    I think that, if a woman who has an 'abortion' is charged with a crime...then the biological father should be also charged with being an accessory to murder.

    If the child dies because the mother cant afford pre natal health care, and the 'abortion' could have been prevented if she were not denied, or it was not feasibly accessible to her, than ANYONE (for example if she walked into a doctors office, and was refused) who denied her access should be charged with accessory to murder.

    It is terrible to see a soceity so wealthy think of thier children as burdens rather than assets after they are born, but would take away women's choices for family planning.

    The true strength of of an oath is forged in adversity.

    by Nur Alia Chang on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 03:39:37 PM PST

    •  I so agree with your last sentence, Nur Alla Chang (2+ / 0-)
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      irishwitch, LilithGardener

      As we so often hear, the Scandinavian countries have the most liberal laws regarding abortion and the fewest abortions. They have honest scientific sex education, easy access to birth control, universal health care, and public support for children.

      Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

      by Mayfly on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 05:38:43 PM PST

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    •  It has nothing to do with welath, Nur. (1+ / 0-)
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      It does have to do with a very different cultural attitude toward women.

      Want me to explain WHY it can be a burden?  I never had an abortion, but back in 1973, I was on the Pill, and I missed a period.  I thought I was pregnant. Yes, I had a job, but it was 1973, and single motherhood wasn't as acceptable as it is  today. I would very likely have lost my job.  There was no way I would have married the father. He was a nice guy, but we were both too young and not in love. My parents? Conservative Catholics, which  meant they'd have been extremely disapproving, and might well have thrown me out after I lost that job.

      Sp, YES, even though you don't understand it because my culture is different from yours, that child would have been a major burden for me. I'd have been jobless, homeless and hopeless.

      I was lucky. It turned out the Pill was too heavy a dose, and I wasn't pregnant.

      Other reasons a child might be a major burden: a young woman trying to get through high school.  A young woman attempting to get a college education so she can support herself and lift herself out of poverty. A woman in a an abusive relationship who knows being pregnant increases her risk of being murdered.  I relaize you'll likely view these as selfish reasons NOT to have a child--but women have as much right to choose their lives as fetuses have to be born--because, to most of us here, it isn't a baby, just a fetus, until it is viable outside MY body.

      I really don' expect you to respect my PoV on this, because I've read many of your posts here and you seem unable to empathize with people whose viewpoint is very different, and whose cultural values don't match yours.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 09:22:42 PM PST

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      •  I think on this you have me wrong... (2+ / 0-)
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        Noddy, irishwitch

        Yes, I am from a different culture than you.  

        I think to alot of things I have not been exposed to, or they seem somewhat strange...but I am tring to understand, and I am sorry to offend you, but I think too that when different ideas come together, someone is offended.

        I want to say this anyway.

        I am against taking away choices. I think that, as a woman, you belive you can decide for yourself what is good and not good for you.  I have no say in what you do, and I dont want my beliefs codified to take your choices away.

        For me, my culture, my religion, my family up bringing, where I live, my experiences, and my hopes and dreams play the part in what and how I chose...and these are personal decisions, and to be honest with you...not always right.

        Since you have shared something personal with me, i will also share something personal with you.

        I was born in China.  My parents came to Malaysia when I was very young, and were migrant workers.  After I graduated secondary, I went back to China, and got married.  The policy there it is child per married couple.

        I had one child...and thought it was in my best interest to take money to be sterilized voluntarily.  I regret it now, but I have to live with it.  I gave in, I gave up my choice...and that is why I am so animated about women, and those who are disinfranchised by thier society to stand up for themselves...because I am a coward...and took money for it.

        I dont belive taking away the right of a woman to chose is good.  It has nothing to do with any of my decisions, or whether I think the choice is right or wrong.  

        Remember, those women in your country protesting the anti choice platform, at this time are not fighting for the right of the unborn, but fighting against the right of a woman to chose what is best for her, her interests, and so on.

        I ment to say, that a group of people who claim to be pro life seem to be so anti life after that child leaves the womb.  Those who are politically pro life (or anti choice) seem to see the poor children as burdens, rather than assets to the progress of your society.

        The true strength of of an oath is forged in adversity.

        by Nur Alia Chang on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:33:33 AM PST

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        •  Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

          I am childless by childbearing would have been very difficult for me, and my first husband and I were happy without kids.  My second husband had a vasectomy with his ex-wife, and that was just fine with me.

          IN America, as everywhere else, childlessness by choice is still something people look askance at.

          I understand the one-child policy n China--and I think it's wrong. On the other hand, this world MUST curb population growth--voluntarily.  Women in developing nations often wish to limit family size but are prevented by cultural conditions, their spouses, or the simple unavailability of  birth control--and some of that has to be blamed on the anti-choice forces of the U.S. right-wing Christians.

          FYI, I do know something about Islam--I've read the Q'oran and quite a bit if Islamic history.  It's odd how a religion which was so far ahead in its treatment of women in the Middle Ages ( female doctors, judges, imams in Baghdad under Haroun-al-Rashid and in Andalusia; guaranteed inheritance for daughters who then controlled that inheritance 0--not their husbands-- when women in Europe who inherited  lost all right to control it to their husband ) has lsot that.  Of course, Christianity never recognized women as people--raised Catholic, left Christianity 40+ years ago. ne'er to return.

          What I was trryign to do was explain WHY a woman might choose abortion.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 12:34:52 PM PST

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