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  •  How many people were killed in car crashes (4+ / 0-)
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    AoT, poco, Dretutz, Larsstephens

    today? It's usually about one every fifteen minutes--a hundred a day. Never mind how many are maimed to become doctor fodder.
    Personally, I'd rather be dead than tortured.

    We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 03:52:35 PM PST

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    •  Ah yes. Since so many were killed in car (0+ / 0-)

      crashes, the ones that were killed by guns don't matter.  

      It's so easy to say you'd rather be dead than be tortured.  But doesn't the degree of torture matter just a tad?  Doesn't whether the torture is psychological or physical matter?  Doesn't whether it will seriously maim you for life or not matter?  Would you really rather never see your family again, never see the blue sky or feel the sun or hear the waves lapping, never taste that favorite food or hear your favorite music?  

      The desire to survive is amazing.  We all want to cling to life, often even when others don't see anything worthwhile about that life.  When you look at all the people that have been tortured horribly, and I mean really horribly, how few of them have opted to commit suicide to stop it?  If you ever had a chance to ask people who have been tortured whether they wish they'd died instead, I doubt many would say yes.  

      I guess I find your statements a bit similar to my feelings when I was a teenager.  I'd look at old people and hope I never lived long enough to get like that.  I couldn't see anything they were getting out of their lives.  Then as I got closer to that and got to know these people as individuals, I realized that even if you can only see with a magnifying machine, the beauty of the colors and shapes you see with that machine make it worthwhile; even if you can't walk, seeing and spending time with the people you love while you're in a wheelchair makes it an acceptable alternative, even if you're laying in a bed and have to be turned by others and have others cleaning your bum and can only eat with a feeding tube, being able to talk to the people you love and have them hug you and kiss you and bring you their little offerings of gifts and knowing they care enough to do all this for you makes it worth living through.  

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 04:59:16 PM PST

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      •  We have veterans killing themselves every (1+ / 0-)
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        day because they can't live with the fact that they tortured and killed innocent people on orders from above and now those who sent them to kill for no good reason are abandoning them. The veterans are choosing death over psychological torture.
        Why is suicide a crime? Because the state wants to claim sole jurisdiction over when individual persons die and when they live. That, btw, is what motivates the effort to eliminate the intentional termination of pregnancy by law. Controlling the beginning and end of life has always been a state objective since the founding of the U.S. Perhaps it's because the wanton destruction of the native population had to be justified in retrospect. More recently, subservience to the nation has been justified in the name of promoting human rights, but that, too, is a fraud. A state which intentionally kills human beings is not promoting human rights. It is announcing that life is conditioned on obedience and coerced obedience is abusive.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:55:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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