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View Diary: Gun nut or mass shooter? (243 comments)

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  •  which is why (16+ / 0-)

    when Starbucks (I don't remember what state) had a group walk in with (legally owned) guns, I had a heart attack.  I was no where near the store, not even in the same state.  But the idea scared the effing crap out of me.  Had I been the store at the time, I would have left VERY quickly.  I got a lot of flack for that, but I have not changed the way I feel about it.

    Melissa

    Dissent is Patriotic

    by mwjeepster on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 07:08:36 AM PST

    •  I don't want to be around ANYONE (16+ / 0-)

      carrying a gun whom I don't know and trust, or is not law enforcement.

      Not knowing whether that guy in the supermarket is cuckoo or sane does not instill my confidence in safe shopping.

      Either way, he's out to prove a point and that is narcissistic, and says a whole lot about the guy right there.

      Great cartoon!

      •  You would have been so happy with me (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose, KVoimakas, Neo Control

        last night then.  I was at Food Lion, with a S&W stuck in my back pocket.  I had every confidence that my shopping experience was safe.
         

        •  Shame on you then (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RadGal70, a2nite, FogCityJohn, Bisbonian

          or maybe you were under threat of serious bodily harm from, say, an escaped lobster....

          •  Seriously, now (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            marina, FrankRose, KVoimakas, Neo Control

            It stayed in my pocket.  It didn't jump out and go BOO or BANG at anybody and I doubt that anyone noticed and if they did they gave no sign of caring.

            I have a carry permit.  I've been through the background check by my county sheriff's office with prints run through the FBI and mental health check.  I've never been charged, let alone convicted of a misdemeanor let alone a felony, no domestic violence, no drug use, no DUI.  

            There is absolutely no reason for you to be concerned about what I am going to do with my handgun.  I am not going to threaten you or anyone else, I am not going to brandish it, or assault anyone.  

            The only time that it would be used is if I were threatened by another with sufficient harm or death that warranted it, which is unlikely to happen.  So you might ask, if it is unlikely why carry?  Because unlike is not impossible.

            •  Come to think of it, I know several women (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cocinero

              who carry guns in their purses. So I guess if it's registered and checked and all that, it's legal. But I still don't know if you beat your partner or have anger issues, just got fired or cheated out of a deal. I don't want to see it on you, and I don't want you to shoot yourself in the butt.

            •  Oh boy (11+ / 0-)

              "There is absolutely no reason for you to be concerned about what I am going to do with my handgun."

              So the guys who ARE going to do whackjob things with their guns, who have been charged with felonies and have failed mental health checks, yet have somehow acquired a gun - they all wear bright orange jumpers or something?

              How the frak would anyone know you were responsible if they saw you in the wild?  And is it more likely you prevent a crime or more likely you get shot when someone sees you carrying a gun?  Unlikely? As you say, unlikely isn't impossible.

              "Don't be defeatist, dear. It's very middle class." - Violet Crawley

              by nightsweat on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 09:01:08 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  There is every reason for me to be concerned (12+ / 0-)

              I don't know you, I don't know why you think you need to carry a gun in the supermarket, I don't know that your are not crazy or have impulse control issues.

              You could be stalking someone, you could have a grudge against the store or someone who works there, you could snap like so many other 'responsible gun owners' who have snapped.  You could see something you find threatening and start shooting.  

              There is absolutely no rational reason to carry a gun into a store unless you are law enforcement or security and you have been called by the store.  Whatever insecurities or delusions of grandeur compel you to carry a gun do not make me trust that you are 'a good guy."

              •  My friend carried a small Derringer (4+ / 0-)

                in her purse that I never knew about. I guess if I don't know about it, it doesn't worry me. The logic is that at least they're not flashing it around, trying to prove their dominance or something.

                I'm not opposed to self-defense, and having been stalked as I left a supermarket one night, I can understand. But simple self-defense is not what's on the minds of the recent exhibitionists, and that kind of thing is threatening, IMO.

                Just one more sign that the social contract is breaking down.

                •  The act of carrying a gun overtly seems to me. . . (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  marina, cocinero, LilithGardener

                  . . . a reasonable fear for safety. (Exceptions for police and military, who've been vetted, trained, and are in uniform, of course.)

                  What that means in states like mine with the godawful stand-your-ground laws (the kinds of states where people are likely to be demonstrating this way!) is startling.

              •  Your perceptions are not entirely correct (0+ / 0-)

                If I were to do as you describe:

                You could see something you find threatening and start shooting.  
                I would certainly be facing a long prison sentence.  Needless to say it is not going to happen.  It is also not incumbent upon me to make you feel secure about the situation.  You may not like it, but the reality of it is, it is within my legal rights.  
                •  Keep it concealed (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  noway2, cocinero

                  where you won't worry people so much. You can be sensitive to their feelings, given recent events, can't you?

                •  Fuck your legal rights (9+ / 1-)

                  you and others like you are the reason that repealing the 2nd Amendment sounds better every day.  Why on earth should I have to wonder every time I go shopping or go to the movies what 'responsible gun owner' walking around armed because he or she is too scared to face life unarmed is going to snap next?  I have the moral high ground here.  

                  My goal is to make the use of guns as unacceptable as smoking and driving drunk have become.  To have laws that make it a crime to walk around armed - it will probably take 30 years or more, and I may not live to see it happen, but I will not stop working for it.

                  •  If anything on this site warrants a H/R... (0+ / 0-)

                    it's "Fuck your legal rights."

                    •  Fantasy rights - prior poster is presuming rights (0+ / 0-)

                      that don't exist everywhere.

                      No one has a right to disturb the peace. How peace is defined depends on context and even time of day.

                      Even Scalia admits that the right to keep and bear arms is NOT UNLIMITED, while the prior poster is presuming the right to keep and bear arms at any time, for any reason, anywhere in the country. No such universal rights exist.

                    •  By prior poster I'm referring to Noway2 (0+ / 0-)

                      who has repetitively asserted rights that do not exist in the USA.

                      What noway2 asserts is a fantasy about open carry rights. The intent is clearly provocative.

                      Suppose for example, since women have the court upheld right to go topless in public in New York state, I would assert the right to attend your very religious cousin's funeral, held in an orthodox synagogue, in Tennesee, and I repeatedly insist upon asserting that I have a right to attend topless.

                      Eventually someone, would blow up with, a fuck your rights to go topless up there in New York, and fuck the train that brought you here...  etc.  No one would be asserting that I should lose my rights in New York state, but that I was inappropriately asserting a right that doesn't meet ANY public definition established in any court.

                      The right to go topless in public, does not include a right to antagonize others, with public nakedness breasts.

                      Freedom of speech does not include any right to play loud broadcasts after 10 pm.

                  •  Uprated (4+ / 0-)

                    Strong language, but it doesn't merit a TR.

                    The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

                    by lotusmaglite on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:44:11 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

                      "Fuck your legal rights" is more than just strong language. It would not be tolerated, for instance, in a discussion of abortion rights. Why is it tolerated here?

                      •  Context (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        LilithGardener

                        RadGal70 obviously meant that "it's my legal right" is a terrible argument, not that you should lose your legal rights because fuck them. It was a harsh way to say it, but not hideworthy.

                        If I were in a discussion of abortion and someone's primary defense of legal abortion was "it's my legal right", I would say fuck your legal rights (in quite different words), because it's a terrible argument. Terrible arguments supporting a proposition have the effect of weakening the proposition instead of strengthening it.

                        The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

                        by lotusmaglite on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 04:22:43 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  I apologize for saying fuck your legal rights. (5+ / 0-)

                    The smug snottiness of "You may not like it, but the reality of it is, it is within my legal rights. " lit me up.

                    I work 3 blocks from Clackamas Town Center.  Kids from my school were there when the gun nut shot it up.  My school was filled with sobbing, terrified kids worried about their friends and their families.  It was hours before we got them all home safely.

                    My daughter teaches 1st grade - they had a drill the week before 12/14 and she herded her 26 6 and 7 year old kids into a corner until the all clear.  The following week she had to deal with the fear those kids felt after 121/14.  

                    So this is not some abstract principle of what the 2nd Amendment means - it is personal and terrifying and I did mean what I said about working to make guns as unacceptable as smoking.  It is absurd that you can be fined for lighting a cigarette within 10 feet of the door of the Capitol, but it is legal to walk around with a loaded gun.

                    •  I was in Barnes & Noble when the shooting started. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RadGal70, Sven Boogie, LilithGardener

                      If I see ANYONE carrying  a weapom onto a mall, or a grocery store, or a movie theater, I will leave, and on the way out dial 9-1-1.  "Armed shooter in Walmart, hurry!"

                      "We refuse to fight in a war started by men who refused to fight in a war." -freewayblogger

                      by Bisbonian on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 05:12:42 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Thank you for your apology but I uprated (0+ / 0-)

                      your comment and explained in comments above that Noway2 is repeatedly asserting rights that do not exist, giving examples to show that Noway2 is intentionally being provocative.

                      I'm going to start mocking them as - peacock syndrome. Asserting such rights, as universal open carry, that do not exist, is like a peacock waving around a fan of irridescent feathers.

                      Free speech is in the Constitution, and so is freedom of religion. But no one has the right to disturb the peace. No one has the right to parade around, not even in New York City, broadcasting loud speech or music after 10 pm.

                      Constitutional rights have legitimate limits. Even Scalia admits the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited, without specifying what limits are constitutional.

                      •  Please tell me what right I am asserting (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        fuzzyguy

                        that doesn't exit?  I never said that universal open carry is a right.  I never said that universal concealed carry is a right.

                        The right to keep and bear, as in own, carry, and use, guns exists and is made explicit in the constitution.  Disagreeing with this interpretation does not invalidate it.  The bounds of this right have been expressed by the courts and legislatures at all levels.  As my rights have not been taken away by legal due process, I have the right to have my guns.  Current supreme court rulings have determine that people have the right to keep guns within their home and to use guns for self defense.  They have not ruled on outside of the home, yet.  The closest we have to that is the Circuit court which ruled that you do and the ruling was sound enough that the state of IL is radically changing their laws as a result.  This ruling says that states may not prohibit (concealed) carry outside of the home and that this is implied in the RKBA.

                        In my state, I have a permit to carry in public.  While not a right in the sense of the constitution, it is still effectively my right to do so as declared by the state and whether or not you are supportive, scared, or indifferent by my doing so is absolutely irrelevant.

                        @RadGal70, I understand where you are coming from.  For me, granted I am coming at it from the other direction, this issue is equally personal.

                  •  Neither concealed carry nor open carry is a right (4+ / 0-)

                    under the Second Amendment. It may be a legal right in some states or municipalities based on state or local laws, and it may require a permit.

                    Most places have a right to prohibit guns on the premises. That includes businesses as well as public buildings.

                    Unrestricted open or concealed carry is a legal right in some red states where NRA stooges have taken control of the legislature.

                    Those laws should be repealed or modified to prohibit open carry and only allow concealed carry subject to seriously restricted permits.

                •  It will eventually come to pass that - open (0+ / 0-)

                  carry is a form of disturbing the peace.

                  Even Scalia admits that the right is not unlimited.

                  You are asserting rights that are in dispute, and about which there is NOT YET settled law.

                •  Your perceptions are like a peacock (0+ / 0-)

                  displaying a fan of irridescent feathers, because that is what peacocks evolved to do, automatically, without understanding.

                  You are asserting a fantasy about the right to public display  of weapons, that disturb the peace of others, shopping in a private store, without understanding what you are asserting, or why, because that is just something you feel compelled to assert, from the safety of your living room.

                  Peacock syndrome.

              •  This is why I advocate concealed carry, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                marina, cocinero

                as opposed to open carry. At least in urban or suburban environments. What you don't see can't scare you.

            •  I don't know you (10+ / 0-)

              I have no idea if you are a nut who's going to start shooting or not. I have no hint of your intentions, your sanity, or your level of control. Your whole argument is- if someone comes in with a gun, I can shoot them. Well, you are someone who just walked in with a gun, I'm leaving. It has happened, and I ain't hanging around to see if you're going to open fire. I don't know you, that's what it comes down to. I don't know you, why would I trust you with a gun?

              They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.

              by Shippo1776 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:11:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Sux to be you . . . . (7+ / 0-)

              You poor little man. I can't even comprehend being so afraid and paranoid that you can't even shop for your groceries, for fuck sake, without carrying a gun. I mean . . . srsly? The grocery store?

              Although, wait . . . I guess with all your lunatic friends carrying their guns, all testosteroney and manly-man and ready to protect the country from zombies and the Evil . . . well, all the Evil Peoples and stuff (after all, the NRA is telling you They are coming to take your flat-screen teevees, your wimminz & your gunz, and why wouldn't  you believe the NRA?) things could indeed get a little messy. So, yeah, on second thought, I can see why you feel the need to carry. (Hey, I'd be freakin' scared if I lived where you do, too!) Have a great day, dude. I guess if all you've got going for you is bullying people to make yourself feel good, you've got 'er made.

              "Let's see what fresh fuckwittery the dolts can contrive to torment themselves with this time." -- The Hydrogen Sonata by Iain M. Banks

              by Skookum on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:12:50 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Projection, much? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wishbone
                You poor little man. I can't even comprehend being so afraid...
                Although, wait . . . I guess with all your lunatic friends...
                after all, the NRA is telling you They are coming to take your flat-screen teevees, your wimminz & your gunz, and why wouldn't  you believe the NRA
                All that spite and hate in response to a statement that he chooses to conceal carry a pistol for self defense purposes?
                ...if all you've got going for you is bullying people to make yourself feel good, you've got 'er made.
                Indeed.
            •  Frankly if someone carried a chainsaw (5+ / 0-)

              into the Food Lion, I'd be a little nervous, even if that person was a lumberjack or tree surgeon in good standing.

              Why? Because there's no reasonable expectation that it would be useful or necessary to someone in a Food Lion.

              Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

              by journeyman on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:52:05 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Wow! I didn't think of it that way. (0+ / 0-)

              So if I see a person carrying a weapon in public, I should just assume that they're fine and it's all legal and I have nothing to worry about.

              No, wait, the NRA just told me I should be armed and ready to shoot that person before anyone else gets hurt.

              Maybe I should go up to the person with a gun and ask for their "mental health check" (it sounds so reassuring) and criminal background . Then again, if they are a mass shooter (unlikely, but unlikely is not impossible), they'd probably shoot me in the process.

              The best solution is to shoot first, ask questions later. Better safe than sorry. I'll probably end up shot too, but, when the smoke clears, at least no one who's dead will be able to kill anyone anymore.

        •  How sad. That must be terrible to be so afraid of (13+ / 0-)

          making a trip to the grocery store that you feel the need to bring a firearm. I can't imagine how it would feel to be that afraid on a daily basis. Has someone threatened to track you down and kill you, or are you just assuming that your local Food Lion is a scary place to be?

        •  Not a secure holster? (0+ / 0-)

          Too cool for gun safety?

          "What victims?" -KVoimakas, RKBA

          by Recall on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:29:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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