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View Diary: Fracking New York State - the Inside Game (70 comments)

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  •  There is no business on a daad planet (18+ / 0-)

    Show me how you treat the waste water from fracking.  Show me how you you remove all the heavy metals and radioactive particles that come up.  Tell me all the agents you send down the well and how you safely remove them.
    I don't need  jobs today that makes me sick tomorrow.  I have had a few of them.

    Until then I'll keep my "No Fracking Way" bumper sticker.

    •  process wastewater from hydrcaulic fracturing (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slothlax, northsylvania, milkbone, MGross

      return flows can be treated with distillation (energy intensive)
      or reverse osmosis.   However most such wastewater is sent to deep injection wells presently where large quantities of brine and non-hazardous-waste-listed liquid wastes have been disposed of for decades.

      •  Except the industry record... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        milkbone

        on that kind of thing is not good. Illicit dumping, leaks, etc. are guaranteed even with an aggressive regulatory regime and the manpower/budget to back it up. There are no signs we would have that.

        "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

        by xaxnar on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 03:55:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Extend the industry's liability (5+ / 0-)

        The fracking industry currently operates in a very protected environment, with secrecy about fracking fluid's ingredients on the front end, and protection for its disposal operations on the other.  Regulatory capture is almost total when it comes to oversight of what fracking operators are doing.  

        The old rule is "No contingencies, no performance."  That is true for mice, monkeys, and men.  Right now, the fracking industry faces no contingencies for the contents of its fluid or for the performance of its disposal operations.  If that were changed, it is entirely possible that fracking fluids would change and more responsible disposal operations would emerge.  There is nothing immutable about any of that.  

        •  Legally You cannot extend the Big Business (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          xaxnar, salmo

          Interests' liability. That is why Dick Cheney put together his 2005 Oil and energy Reform Act - and that act specifically allows anyone who destroys anything in their attempts to drill or frack for any resource TOTALLY off the hook.

          So until that Act is repealed, which ain't gonna happen as long as Big Military, Big Energy and Big Finance own our government critters, we the citizens are stuck. And this probably means we will end up having to pay to have our drinking water de-salinated from the oceans, like they do in Saudi Arabia and Iran.

          Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

          by Truedelphi on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 06:51:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  We're not stuck (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xaxnar

            We're stuck until the Act is repealed only if we give up.  There are points of leverage, such as disclosure of fracking fluid contents and full cycle regulation tying frackers to disposal contractors.  What should progressives urge New York State to do as it thinks about removing its ban?  The State is not stuck, and neither are we.

      •  much of it (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xaxnar, sfbob, LNK, PinHole, Truedelphi

        is sprayed on the roadways by the tanker trunks while driving away from the site.
        It runs off into drainage ditches going who knows where or pools along roadsides.
        When it evaporates, it leaves chemical residue that dries into dust. Vehicles driving along these roadways stir that dust up and send it into any active breezes or winds to be carried to, again, who knows where?

        There have been too many accidents, too many pay-offs, too little regulation...

        We're talking about our life-sustaining water supply here. Some things you do . not . gamble . with.

        I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

        by Gentle Giant on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:03:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What you are describing is illegal in Michigan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PinHole

          and in other states.

          •  So is speeding, selling beer to minors, etc. etc. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Truedelphi, hubcap

            Without enforcement of existing laws, without meaningful penalties, this is what happens. There is a big financial incentive for the companies drilling and operating these wells to cut corners wherever they think they can get away with it - and often no real punishment if they're caught.

            "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

            by xaxnar on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 05:26:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  But it is happening in PA (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xaxnar, hubcap

            and WVa.  There is even a proposal to allow this harmless waste, once it has been processed, to be spread on fields where food is grown!  (Just tried to find it quickly, and could not - will take time to research)

            How interesting that you take the name "Lake Superior".  Do you know ANYTHING about what the iron ore industry wanted to do to pollute that Lake?

      •  It releases methane (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xaxnar, Truedelphi

        which is what makes people's faucets light up, and which is a stronger greenhouse gas than CO2.

        Yes, they've been doing this for decades, and contaminating drinking water and making people sick for that long too. That says nothing to me.

        Helping a food pantry on the Cheyenne River Reservation,Okiciyap." >www.okiciyap.yolasite.com<"

        by betson08 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 04:25:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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