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View Diary: Fracking New York State - the Inside Game (70 comments)

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  •  Only people with thousands to millions (6+ / 0-)

    are people with a hell of a lot of land. Royalties promised are often unrealistic because what is payed out depends on price per BTU, and the more the price of gas craters, the more wells you need to make a profit. People who own that much land generally don't need the money.
    Sometimes I feel that Tom Waits' line is too cynical for a sig line, but in reference to fracking, it's spot on.  

    "We are monkeys with money and guns". Tom Waits

    by northsylvania on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:45:43 AM PST

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    •  Maybe millions is a bit much (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      northsylvania, PinHole

      But thousands is not.  I know people who were getting gas offers before the whole fracking thing started, the money is there.  I find it hard to tell people that they have to leave that money on the table and walk away.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:50:47 AM PST

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      •  I was told thousands (10+ / 0-)

        by the land men when we leased our land in the Barnett Shale. Thousands it wasn't, more like under a hundred a year. Almost all your money will come from the signing bonus and the longer you hold out, the better it is. Our neighbourhood got around $300 apiece for a half acre per landowner. Neighbourhoods in south Fort Worth held out longer and got around $1,500. The land men will tell you differently, but then they're paid to be excellent storytellers.
        I'd put that money into property away from shale beds though, because the disruption and degradation to quality of life is significant. Not everyone is prone to getting sick from the added fumes, but I was. (My migraines stopped abruptly when I moved to England.) However, everyone has to put up with the 24/7 noise, busted up roads, occasional appearance of men in hazmat suits in the local creek, etc. My husband got a job in another area so we moved. I consider myself very lucky. Not everyone can do that.

        "We are monkeys with money and guns". Tom Waits

        by northsylvania on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:04:59 AM PST

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        •  I hear you (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          northsylvania, milkbone

          But I would say that there are people who would take the money and be ok with the disruptions you describe.  That should be their choice.

          The only thing I ask is that the companies who do this sort of thing disclose the chemicals they use and the potential dangers and costs of their business.  If they aren't willing to do that I am opposed.  If they can be up front about these costs I have no problem.

          There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

          by slothlax on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:14:44 AM PST

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          •  If they were honest, (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xaxnar, milkbone, slothlax, PinHole

            it would be different. All I'm saying is they haven't been in the past...ever. The money simply isn't in being honest.
            The only thing you can do in the end is educate yourself. There's a lot more information out there beyond emotional protest films, but nothing I have seen so far contradicts my own experience.

            "We are monkeys with money and guns". Tom Waits

            by northsylvania on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 04:02:49 AM PST

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          •  No, no. no. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xaxnar, PinHole

            We have something called the public good. This is a public good. People don't have a natural right to do something that has this much disruptive and contamination potential. I couldn't disagree more.

            And as we see here, the monetary gain in the short term pales in comparison with the socialized costs of the contamination and greenhouse gases in the long term

            Helping a food pantry on the Cheyenne River Reservation,Okiciyap." >www.okiciyap.yolasite.com<"

            by betson08 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 04:32:26 PM PST

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        •  $300 for a half acre? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          xaxnar, northsylvania

          My friend got $5000 upfront for half an acre, and a 2 or 3% overriding royalty in the Barnett.

          He didn't end up collecting the latter, because they didn't drill.

          •  Our neighbourhood (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            xaxnar

            was one of the first to be solicited. We had a neighbourhood association meeting and were advised it was fair. We also got a nice contribution to the association itself. Heh.

            "We are monkeys with money and guns". Tom Waits

            by northsylvania on Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:02:18 AM PST

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