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View Diary: Breaking: All Holy Hell Going Down In Big Bear. Update: Dorner's Death Confirmed, Then Unconfirmed! (306 comments)

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  •  If those officers don't know that (2+ / 0-)
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    JesseCW, jpmassar

    Firing a bunch of tear gas canisters into a house will start a fire then they are either idiots or maliciously trying to start a fire.  Dorner killed cops, people who do. That get street justice from cops.

    •  I doubt that you have any first hand knowledge (2+ / 0-)
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      jpmassar, misslegalbeagle

      of how tear gas works...While it does have some chemicals that are flammable, it is hardly a bomb.  Infact, it is not even considered highly flammable. There are some situations where it has been documented, or strongly suspected that tear gas acted as an accelerant to a fire, there are no instances where the gas would just spontaneously combust; It would require a spark.  

      So your suggestion is that, the police wanted to burn down the cabin, so they fired tear gas, and kept their fingers crossed that he would light a match?  Or are you suggesting that you have knowledge that they threw a lit torch in immediately afterwards?

      I get it... you dont like the police... Ive been a police officer for 18 years (not in LA, on the other coast) so I am guessing you dont care what I have to say.  I will tell you,  that I have been apart of many searches for people wanted for murder, both of civilians and a few times of cops, and at no time do I remember anyone planning this street justice you speak of.  And none of these manhunts that I have been apart of have ever ended in the death of the criminal. I guess I'm an anomoly?  Or am I just a liar?

      •  i have first hand experience (3+ / 0-)
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        jpmassar, wu ming, fuzzyguy

        With teargas, more than I'd like. The issue isn't the gas, it's the canister that heats up enough to cause a fire. This isn't the first time it's happened.

        •  I didnt say that it couldnt happen, (1+ / 0-)
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          just that it was far from likely...and I'm not quite sure how, even now, you are confidently stating that it did.  There hasnt even been confirmation that tear gas was used.
          Being logical, if there was a tear gas that incinerated every building it was shot into, do you honestly believe it would still be in use?  Put aside your mistrust of the police for a moment...  every time it indiscriminately burnt everything down, lawsuits against the city would cost them millions... You dont think the Mayor, or the city council, or any politician would immediately call for their banning? Do you think Police Departments have noone outside the Department regulating the weaponry that they use?

          About ten years ago in NYC, a flash bang grenade was used during the execution of a warrant.  Prior to this incident they had been used before but only during the hunt for perpetrators deemed potentially armed and wanted for violent felonies, mostly murder.  They were generally successful.
          This particular day however, for lack of a better word, the cops fucked up, and hit the wrong apartment.  The end result was an innocent elderly woman, had a heart attack after the use of the flash bang.  You know what happened then?  Two weeks later the use of flash bang grenades under any circumstances, was permanently banned.

          •  Some audio from the news of police (4+ / 0-)
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            annieli, jpmassar, wu ming, Jon Says

            officers saying "Burn it down" about the cabin.


            •  Admittedly, after listening to that audio (1+ / 0-)
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              I doubt that there is any doubt in your mind that a fire was intentionally lit.  I really cant blame you either for that opinion.  That audio sounds pretty damning.

              Still, in my mind, it is far more likely, that whoever is speaking on that audio, is responding to seeing a fire break out, and not calling for one to be lit.  I think this, because for the building to have been intentionally lit on fire would have required one of two things:  

              First would be an Official Department policy of trying to smoke out a barricaded perpetrator, which I have never heard of, and would be absolutely absurd if one does exist.

              Secondly, a conspiracy of I would guess a minimum of 50 police officers, probably from different departments, who all collectively agree to break policy, and endandger themselves, along with the perpetrator, and anyone else in the area.  I know in your mind that type of conspiracy is plausible, but I know that it isnt.  I am certainly not saying that corrupt cops do not exist, or even that small group of cops havent become a gang of criminals together, but on such a large scale as this, with many of the cops on the scene having never met each other, it strains credulity in my eyes.  

              It would also call for the cops to have on hand some sort of incendiary projectile on hand.  Although Im not familiar with California's police arsenal, I have never heard of this type of hardware being a part of a modern police force.  Tactically, noone would expose themselves to the building to run up and pour gasoline on it, and I am still dismissing the use of tear gas with the intent to start a fire as ridiculously impractical.

              I will be the first to state how wrong I was if there is definitive proof that the fire was intentionally lit by the police, and as a police officer I would be one of the loudest condeming the action.  However, I dont accept 52 seconds of audio as that proof.

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