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View Diary: Big Government / Small Government Messaging (41 comments)

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  •  Here's a simple test: (0+ / 0-)

    do you have to work ? If so, you probably aren't among the global .01%. Why you promote the interests of a class to which you do not belong is another question.

    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

    by Azazello on Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 10:18:49 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  What "class to which I do not belong"? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Whatithink, VClib

      I definitely am an investor, in two respects:  (1) I own a business -- that is my biggest investment; and (2) I have my 401k, and my other savings, invested.  

      I am also working for a living.  

      I belong to both.  

      I am not part of the uber rich who do not have to work for a living. But "investors" aren't limited to the uber rich who don't have to work for a living.

      •  The threat to our liberty, (0+ / 0-)

        and our standard of living, doesn't come from a law firm that owns it's building, or from a teacher with a pension plan or a guy who rehabs houses, though all of these are technically investors and some may even flatter themselves that they belong to the investor class. It comes from very large, global concentrations of capital and the notion that these must be allowed to profit from all human activity is nothing less that corporate totalitarianism.

        The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

        by Azazello on Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 11:20:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just curious, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coffeetalk

          How is a global concentration of capital a threat to your liberty? I can see it being a threat to a solid safety net, but how does it affect your liberty?Please be specific.

          •  Monopoly power constrains my choices, (0+ / 0-)

            and people are not free under feudalism. Unlike my government, corporations are not democratic institutions. The more power they have over our lives, the less democracy we have. The conservative elite doesn't hate the government, they just hate Democracy.

            The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

            by Azazello on Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 12:26:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But we aren't a democracy we are a (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              coffeetalk

              republic.

              •  This is why (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                there are laws against monopoly power.

                 Monopoly power constrains my choices, )
                The most powerful corporations clearly are not a monopoly -- Exxon, Apple, for example, are not monopolies.  They are very large companies, certainly, but a small mom and pop business would never have had the resources to develop the IPhone or the IPad.  And even Apple, powerful as it is, has no "control" over me.  I can choose not to own Apple products.  I can choose not to buy Exxon products.  

                If a corporation has "control" over me, it's generally one of two situations.  (1) I have chosen that role for myself -- I have chosen to buy their products, or use their services. (2) in the case of a monopoly, like a local utility company, they have submitted themselves to extra regulation and control by government -- government even controls how much profit they can make on their monopoly (that's how concepts like the rate base came into existence).  

              •  Not this again. (0+ / 0-)

                The idea that "we are a republic and not a democracy" comes from a misreading of the Federalist Papers. A republic is simply any government other than a monarchy. So the US is a republic. What Madison said in #10, and again in #14, is that we are not a direct democracy., as in ancient Athens. The fact that we elect representatives and executives makes us a democracy, albeit a representative, as opposed to a direct, democracy. Democracy and Republic are not mutually exclusive. I get to vote for the nation's Chief Executive every four years. I have never been given the opportunity to vote for a corporate CEO. Do you see ?

                The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

                by Azazello on Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 12:41:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There's a difference (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  VClib, nextstep
                  . I get to vote for the nation's Chief Executive every four years. I have never been given the opportunity to vote for a corporate CEO. Do you see ?
                  I can opt out of any privately owned business.  I can decide not to buy their products, or not to own any stock.  I influence privately owned business only if I choose to -- by being a customer, or -- if they are a publicly traded company buying stock.  If I choose to buy into a company, I get a vote on the governance of the company (shareholders get to vote).  

                  I cannot choose whether I want to buy-in to the federal government -- I am forced to because of tax laws.  I cannot opt out of control of the federal government.

                  I don't know what makes you think you should have control over someone else's property, which is what a privately-owned business is.  If it's your property -- if you own some of it -- you get a say in proportion to your ownership.  

          •  The "global concentration" comment wasn't mine but (0+ / 0-)

            let me comment.  The enormous wealth of a few has allowed them disproportionate influence via lobbying, unlimited political expenditures, and other means.  This has reduced the influence of the vast majority in government policy.  Clearly, the rich don't get everything they want all the time.  Nevertheless, average citizens get less of what they would without the impact of big money.  The process continues with Citizens United, ALEC getting state legislatures to make voting more difficult, big money helping to elect state legislators who gerrymander in ways convenient for them, etc.

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