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View Diary: Jesuits call for repeal of the Second Amendment (43 comments)

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  •  The Overton window is shifting (7+ / 0-)

    It will take decades, but the 2nd will be repealed at some point.

    Think about it -- would anyone in their right mind propose that bizarre amendment if we were writing the Constitution now from scratch?  

    It's an unstable archaism.  Once removed, it will never be reinstalled, so eventually it will join the 3/5's rule and all the other archaisms based on 18th century moral perceptions.

    •  Can you imagine the kinds (4+ / 0-)

      of guns we will be looking at in decades?  When will this stop?  At a certain point, surely there will be some kind of horror that will work its way into the popular imagination.

    •  Since the 60s, the rate of institutionalization... (6+ / 0-)

      ...has plunged.

      On a per/capita basis, the US has 95% fewer inpatient psychiatric beds than it did in the 1960s.

      Perhaps the focus should be on psychiatric health and not on repealing the 2nd amendment.

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

      by PatriciaVa on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 01:15:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see the two (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raincrow, Susipsych, S F Hippie

        as mutually exclusive, and certainly there are many mentally ill people who would never pick up a gun just as there are many people of sound mind who could have an accident with a gun.

        •  I am not sure that instutionalization is a good (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow, PatriciaVa

          answer either. Those places were rife with abuse, including human experimentation without patient knowledge or consent, and just outright abuse and neglect.

          When I bring up mental health care, I mean health care, and not some dank basement where we can cram people who need round the clock supervision and treatment.

      •  completely misguided non sequitur (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        S F Hippie, Munchkn

        Try to pay attention to the problem at hand.

        Even if we took every mentally ill person off the streets, and restricted gun sales to completely legal owners, there would still be thousands of needless gun deaths each year.

        Dealing with mental illness is important, but it's also important to deal with malaria, teen-age smoking, car safety, and any number of other issues that also would evade the central question for this discussion.

        •  Lots of deaths are "needless" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PatriciaVa, JayFromPA, ancblu

          We annually tolerate tens of thousands of "needless" automobile-related deaths, over 1 million "needless" automobile-related injuries, over a quarter million "needless" deaths due to obesity, 19000 suicides by means other than firearms, 3000 cycling deaths and serious injuries, almost a half million "needless" deaths from tobacco exposure/use -- none of them caused by activities protected by the Constitution.

          We tolerate thousands of rapes by men who are consumers of constitutionally protected pornography.

          Since Roe v. Wade, almost 50 million constitutionally protected elective abortions have been performed. If you are someone -- for instances, a Jesuit -- who believes a fetus is a human person with full civil rights, how unbearable is this statistic?

          Thus I'm not sure you've made your case against "needless" deaths per se.

          I infer you're also assuming no other changes would take place in society while we were taking "every mentally ill person off the streets" (a bit extreme, wouldn't you think upon further reflection??), that at the same time there would be no increased emphasis on gun safety instruction and/or responsibility for securing weapons and ammunition at home; no changes in general mental healthcare, veterans' mental healthcare, economic conditions, etc., that might reduce the incidence of suicides, etc.

          YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

          by raincrow on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 03:52:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  My point is that gun deaths can be eliminated (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dream weaver

            even if we do NOTHING about the mentally ill.

            This is a completely solvable, self-inflicted problem.  All we need to do is decide to end it.

            And talking about any number of other issues doesn't solve the fundamental problem that legal guns owned by sane people cause children to die.

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