#### Comment Preferences

• ##### aha! there it is(29+ / 0-)

the story in Richfield Utah:
the gal was walking away from the truck.

so much #gunfail so little time.

Ted Kennedy: “The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die…”

• ##### Fallacy Fail(4+ / 0-)
Hasty generalization, or converse fallacy of accident

Hasty generalization: argues from a special case to a general rule. Inductive logic demands a data set large enough and qualitative enough to warrant a generalization.
Example

Argument: Every person I've met has ten fingers, therefore, all people have ten fingers.
Problem: Those who have been met are not a representative subset of the entire set.

Also called reverse accident, destroying the exception, a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter

Proper Generalization: Every person in this room has ten fingers. Therefore, all people in this room have ten fingers.

There are over 300 million privately owned firearms owned by over 80 million Americans. Even with the extremely high rates of ownership, firearms accidents are extremely low:
In Targeting Guns, Dr. Kleck concludes in part, "Most gun accidents occur in the home, many (perhaps most) of them involving guns kept for defense. However, very few accidents occur in connection with actual defensive uses of guns. Gun accidents are generally committed by unusually reckless people with records of heavy drinking, repeated involvement in automobile crashes, many traffic citations, and prior arrests for assault. Gun accidents, then, involve a rare and atypical subset of the population, as both shooters and victims. They rarely involve children, and most commonly involve adolescents and young adults."

"The risk of a gun accident is extremely low, even among defensive gun owners, except among a very small, identifiably high-risk subset of the population. Consequently, it is doubtful whether, for the average gun owner, the risk of a gun accident could counterbalance the benefits of keeping a gun in the home for protection: the risk of an accident is quite low overall, and is virtually nonexistent for most gun owners." (p 321)
Any disingenuous shill with an agenda can assemble a random collection of outrageous headlines and demagogue it into a call for action. In fact, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck make such agenda-fueled demagoguery their stock-and-trade.

The whole decade needs an asterisk.

[ Parent ]

• ##### stock in trade(0+ / 0-)

The whole decade needs an asterisk.

[ Parent ]

• ##### When one's child is killed by gun ownership(16+ / 0-)

it's 100%.

[ Parent ]

• ##### What about unarmed woman killed by a stalking exes(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Tom Seaview

or the unarmed father killed by home invaders, do their lives count less than 100%?

Do we really need to go through this game of trading anecdotes and headlines, pretending they're data?

It's just a really bad idea to determine how millions upon millions of people should live by trading tragic stories.

Utilitarianism still has profound relevance in determining good public policy.

The whole decade needs an asterisk.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Gee, how are most "unarmed" people killed(17+ / 0-)

by stalkers and home invaders? Can it be by guns? Can it be that the ex-husband is a respected, responsible gun owner with "rights" being cheered by you gun guys right up until the moment his bullet kills his ex-wife?

[ Parent ]

• ##### The thugs doing the salking (0+ / 0-)

aren't giving up their weapons anytime, ever.

You're asking people who don't wish to become felons to risk their lives to satiate your largely irrational fears and prejudices.

How very noble of you.

The whole decade needs an asterisk.

[ Parent ]

• ##### and you uprate the thugs(3+ / 0-)

here until the moment their bullet kills somebody. Until then, they're a responsible gun-owner.

I'll tell you what, asshole, I get off the train at one of the most dangerous stops on the north side of Chicago. I walk by gang-bangers and look them right in the eye. I don't need a gun. I've had guys run at me, and I've stopped in the middle of the street and stare them down.

Now, unless you live in a city neighborhood, and walk the gauntlet past gang-bangers, you should probably STFU.

If you live in some rural area, and want to whine about raping bears, or wolves who kidnap children, you don't belong in a conversation with me.

[ Parent ]

• ##### thank God Oskar Pistorius .....(15+ / 0-)

protected his girlfriend from those nasty home invaders in the bathroom.   oops.

It is pretty common for women to be more afraid of the armed man they live with than strangers.  Maybe owning a gun isn't the answer to all your personal safety issues.

You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

[ Parent ]

• ##### Frankly if I was an American and interested in (4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
PsychoSavannah, poco, SoCalSal, JohnGor0

dating someone the first thing I would find out is if he is a gun owner and if so I'd 'walk on by'.

• ##### perhaps when a guy is cleaning his gun(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
poco

his family should all have their guns loaded and drawn. Once they realize that there's still a bullet in the gun he's cleaning, they start shooting at him until he unloads the gun. Of course, he would have to own 2 guns, just to have one holstered in case his family suddenly turned into murderers.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Like the air force airman?(9+ / 0-)

If you define every accident as involving high risk people, you of course create a tautology.

To some extent, you're correct, and lists like these could be assembled for many human activities.

If you're claiming that all the accidents involve unusually reckless people, then those universal background checks  seem especially important, eh?

We as a nation have taken actions on child car seats, for example, that probably save only a few dozen kids a year (the new LATCH install system).

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]

• ##### You guys are so cute...(23+ / 0-)

when you get frustrated by reporting of the news.

Wah! News!

• ##### More than half of accidental shootings (10+ / 0-)

are committed by children and teens.

One-third of all families in America that have children also have guns, and more than 40 percent of them don't keep their guns locked up. Children younger than eight can't tell the difference between a real gun and a toy, and 3-year-olds are strong enough to pull the trigger on a real gun. Children and teens commit more than half of all unintentional shootings.
Risks of accidents are high for children. That's why we hold  parents responsible for their safety.

So 13% of homes with children have unsecured guns. That means a home with children has a higher than needed risk of shooting by or of a child. 2 children or 2 unsecured firearms? Double the risk of needless death or injury.

Worse, almost half of accidental shootings are committed by so-called "responsible gun owners" - cue picture of Dick Cheney, who often face no fines, no sanctions, no charges.

How does it infringe civil rights to have a law prohibiting drunken gun play in the presence of minor children?

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