Skip to main content

View Diary: The U.S. is ground zero for climate change (172 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  That all makes sense... (0+ / 0-)

    but it doesn't do anything to help your claim that the tar sands are a drop in the bucket, which I think I pretty effectively refuted.

    Also, I don't think anyone says that stopping any one pipeline is "the answer." Maybe you can provide some links or quotes indicating who you're arguing against.

    Passive renunciation is not the whole of wisdom.

    by play jurist on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:39:20 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not "refuted" at all . . . (0+ / 0-)

      and not a "claim" either . . . just do the arithmetic.  Compare CO2 from Athabasca with CO2 worldwide, and tell me that it's more that a "drop".
       

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:05:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong number, as I said. (0+ / 0-)

        Compare CO2 from tar sands with CO2 we can emit and stay at 2c.

        At least try to adress the actual counter-argument I'm giving. I get that you don't read HuffPo. That was hardly my point. What you keep repeating is the media take-away from a recent Nature study; HuffPo was just the first one I saw. However, it's not the only relevant number. I provided a link to one of the author's website explaining and providing more context and more relevant numbers than were chosen for reporting. To repeat, the tar sands are around 75% of our fair share of remaining CO2 sequester in a 2c scenario. Your number assumes business as usual, which is to say it assumes as a premise that we don't solve the problem then derives as a conclusion that stopping the tar sands won't solve the problem. That's kind of a trivial point. We have to start with a scenario in which the problem is solved, and that's got to involve nations at least aiming to hit their fair share numbers. Politically, that's going to involve some global compromise because we're way, way over under the status quo, but the fair share number has to be a baseline for understanding the issue.

        Passive renunciation is not the whole of wisdom.

        by play jurist on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:12:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't read "media take-aways" either . . . (0+ / 0-)

          there's not much in the secondary (or is it tertiary) literature that is anything but pablum for popular consumption, and it is written mostly by "reporters" who themselves have not a clue (and great editorial pressure to misreport if they do).  I have no use whatsoever for the "2c scenario", either . . . it doesn't, and won't, work that way . . . as that presumes some sort of attainable equilibrium point that doesn't exist.

          As for "the tar sands are around 75% of our fair share" that's a hypothetical piled on a hypothetical . . . the tar sands are not the only source of oil, so the size of that particular resource doesn't matter.  Climate change will have overwhelmed us long before it gets close to total exploitation.  Shutting down the tar sands operation would/will have exactly no effect on oil consumption over the next 20 years.

          And as for our "fair share" . . . if global warming matters at all it is zero.   As in none.  It's negative, actually, if we take responsibility for the CO2 that we have emitted already, and act to remediate it.    

          Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

          by Deward Hastings on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:55:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, (0+ / 0-)

            the important thing is that you get to feel morally and intellectually superior to everyone who is trying to do something.

            Passive renunciation is not the whole of wisdom.

            by play jurist on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 11:43:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  only to those (0+ / 0-)

              who persist in doing what's ineffective and senseless.

              I'm altogether at home with those who are trying to do something useful . . .

              Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

              by Deward Hastings on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 12:02:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site