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  •  Humans were naturally made... (6+ / 0-)

    ...with the brains to use natural oil and other natural chemicals to make plastic.  Which has improved all our lives.

    Boehner Just Wants Wife To Listen, Not Come Up With Alternative Debt-Reduction Ideas

    by dov12348 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 05:12:08 PM PST

    •  According to your irreparably flawed logic ... (4+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      Oh Mary Oh, AZ Sphinx Moth, jilikins, samddobermann
      Hidden by:
      craiger

      ... nuclear weapons are just hunky-dory!

      Go away, troll ...

      Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

      by WereBear Walker on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 08:49:03 PM PST

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      •  if you're thoughtful, you can reuse plastic (21+ / 0-)

        soda bottles, for example, furnish the containers for the plants and the water in hydroponics DIY patches from instructables.com.

        Without plastic pipe, though, getting the new gas line I needed three years ago (ran over the old one with the lawn mower, scared myself I'd almost blown up the house; then it turned out to have been leaking about 1/3 of our regular monthly gas bill underground!) or water into the house would be much costlier and more difficult.

        That said -- butcher paper is paper for a reason, and that reason is that it's flexible and can be sealed up -- and unlike plastic, it protects against freezer burn. Not as well as foil, but better than plastic.

        The meat counters at Albertson's stores use it, and so do the ones at United (you do have to get deli or fresh rather than prepacked, but it's probably better to do that anyway -- you can at least be sure what's in the package, other than "ground beef", that way) Supermarkets / Amigos / Market Street. My bet is the same is true of HEB / Central Market.

        I realize glass containers weigh more, but they can be recycled. Why did they go out of fashion 20 years or so ago, and why are we not encouraged to go back to these returnable (refundable!) sterilizable containers that don't contribute to the plastic patch in the Pacific Gyre?

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 09:00:54 PM PST

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      •  Nuclear weapons are neither good... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro

        ....nor bad.  Depends how people use them.

        Name calling, eh?  Afraid to try an actual argument?

        Boehner Just Wants Wife To Listen, Not Come Up With Alternative Debt-Reduction Ideas

        by dov12348 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 at 10:21:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  !!! ur doing it wrong (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jilikins, eddieb061345, samddobermann

          The argument is that nuclear power is neither good nor bad.  Nuclear weapons are bad, by definition.  Hello?

        •  Nuclear power is probably great! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Justus, melo

          it's the idiots who run things that screw it up. Fukushima, Chernobyl and every other problem with nuclear didn't have to happen if it weren't for the corporate greed and laziness that allowed those plants to become dangerous.
          When nuclear is 100% fool-proof, then I'd be all for it. But right now, if something, anything, goes wrong, you not only  kill people and animals, but whole parcels of the earth - making them inhabitable for generations.
          The trouble with your "arguments" is that they contain very little thought.
          We need answers for how to take care of ol' Mother Earth. 'Cause she's both sick and tired of how man has raped her without thought.

          Isn’t it ironic to think that man might determine his own future by something so seemingly trivial as the choice of an insect spray. ~ Rachel Carson, Silent Spring ~

          by MA Liberal on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:42:07 AM PST

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      •  Huh? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        craiger, eddieb061345, Deep Dark

        Did you think before you posted this absurdity?

        We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

        by denise b on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 12:06:06 AM PST

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      •  Heil Hitler (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        How would history be different without nukes?   I'm not sure I want to find out. I still cry over the Holocaust.    I'm glad we were able to stop it.

        Life is full of ugly choices.   Aggression and territoriality is a part of our nature.

        Hitler had to be stopped.

        •  Erm...Germany surrendered in May 1945. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          samddobermann

          Hiroshima was bombed in August 1945...

          So how did nuclear weapons play into the defeat of Hitler, exactly?

          •  Meh, some say Germany pre-emptively (0+ / 0-)

            surrendered to avoid being nuked.

            In any event, this thread offers everyone the opportunity to ponder back just a tad further about the age old question "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

            •  The Germans didn't even know (0+ / 0-)

              about nukes. WE didn't even know.

              The first and only test of a bomb was in July of 1945. The scientists weren't even sure what would happen. And they placed themselves too damned close.

              The some who say it are really really dumb even while attributing to others.

              I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

              by samddobermann on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:28:05 PM PST

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        •  Actually, the Russians might have joined Japan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DFWmom

          and held off the Germans, and then, those of us who hadn't fled to South America, well, we'd all be speaking some combination of Russian, or Japanese.

    •  And made them worse as well. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MA Liberal, Justus, qofdisks, jayden, melo

      I think at best we've traded off problems.  Plastics are most certainly incredibly overused to 'solve' even things that weren't problems, simple because they're handy and cheap.

      Humans actually are completely ignorant and foolish when born. (or 'naturally made', if you will.)  At some point they pick up the knowledge to make all sorts of things.  Later on, they pick up the wisdom to stop making some of those things.

    •  Buth then humans were too lazy to figure out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justus

      how to deal with what they made so it wouldn't despoil the earth that those "natural" oils and chemicals came from.
      It's great that humans evolved to the point where they could figure stuff out to create new things. But leaving behind the waste, with no plan to deal with it is just lazy, stupid and childish.

      Isn’t it ironic to think that man might determine his own future by something so seemingly trivial as the choice of an insect spray. ~ Rachel Carson, Silent Spring ~

      by MA Liberal on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:36:36 AM PST

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      •  The problem seems not to be the plastic, (0+ / 0-)

        or other waste we create, but the disposition of it - how to dispose of it without causing harm to our world.  And that would seem to be a problem for physicists.  If those geniuses could figure out a way to create - and control - a black hole, we could dump all our waste there and would never have to deal with it again.  Of course we may just be defiling another universe with our garbage, but with most other things created by humans, it would be out of (our) sight, out of (our) mind.  

        Hopefully that other universe wouldn't have physicists who could figure out how to reverse the gravity of the black hole, or create one of their own, and intermittently throw it all back at us.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:49:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can't remember either the title or author ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SueDe

          ... but several years ago read an amusing sci-fi short story about just this idea. The main character invented a device that would create a small 2-3' diameter black hole and then threw garbage into it.

          He got the brilliant idea of throwing the plans for the device in, and the next thing you know, an equivalent, small hole opens up nearby (they were strictly one-way things) and garbage started coming out of it, including a "broccoli cat." That last bit is why I remember the story!

          Penn State - Rug too small, dirtpile too big, not enough brooms.

          by WereBear Walker on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 08:05:40 AM PST

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          •  I had no idea there was a short story (0+ / 0-)

            that included this idea.  Do you remember the name - either the story or the author?

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 08:44:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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