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View Diary: This time, Paul Krugman is wrong (136 comments)

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  •  not an issue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laughing Vergil

    it's a good place to work, we treat our employees fairly, and they stay as long as they need to stay

    that is, the college graduates move on, as they're meant to

    some of the homemakers have been with us more than a decade

    it's not all about money, despite the thesis of this blog

    sometimes it's about quality of life, which is how i got to be here anyway...

    tipped for your clean coal line, btw.

    "Good Lord, how can the rich bear to die?" -- Nikos Kazantzakis

    by Shocko from Seattle on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:23:03 AM PST

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    •  Perhaps you could quit with your (15+ / 0-)

      patronizing reference to your employees as "homemakers".  They're working outside the home if they're working for you, for christ's sake.  Just because you aren't paying them enough to support themselves doesn't make them "homemakers".  It just permits you to justify to yourself that you pay them peanuts.

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:34:39 AM PST

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      •  fair enough (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        soros, phonegery, Manny

        I am seeking a word to describe women who have stayed home to raise children and are now working a handful of shifts each week as their kids work through school

        I don't mean to be patronizing. They're my friends.

        So if you've a better descriptor, I'm more than open to it.

        "Good Lord, how can the rich bear to die?" -- Nikos Kazantzakis

        by Shocko from Seattle on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:39:50 AM PST

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        •  How about employees? What difference (9+ / 0-)

          does it make that they're women?  Except that women too often accept less pay.  Or that they raised kids?   Or what their kids are doing?  Maybe they're part time employees.  Then call them part time employees.  But what you're doing by referring to them as homemakers is trying to suggest that they're just working for "pin" money and so it should be okay to take their time without compensating them fairly.  

          I'm sorry if I'm starting to get harsh here, but it seems to me you want to see yourself as some kind of benevolent overseer with employees who consider you a beloved father figure.  I very much doubt that's how they actually see you.  People are generally not nearly as kind to us as we are to ourselves.

          "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

          by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:46:44 AM PST

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          •  two things (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            litho, gc10

            First, I didn't say that they were women. I said they were homemakers.

            Second, I am trying to differentiate between this cadre of staff and the college students, because their motivations and longevity with our company are different. I regret, again, the imperfection of my nomenclature, and apologize for any offense given.

            Third: This is a place people like to work. It is considered to be a good part-time job in this town. Splitting this into a worker-management conflict simply doesn't fit.

            The emotional loading of the word overseer...I don't think I earned that one.

            "Good Lord, how can the rich bear to die?" -- Nikos Kazantzakis

            by Shocko from Seattle on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:52:39 AM PST

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            •  Well. . . (5+ / 0-)

              "Mitt Romney looks like the CEO who fires you, then goes to the Country Club and laughs about it with his friends." ~ Thomas Roberts MSNBC

              by second gen on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 08:56:38 AM PST

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            •  Come on (6+ / 0-)

              "Splitting this into a worker-management conflict simply doesn't fit."

              You think what you pay your employees is not a management-employee difference?

              •  BTW (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                melfunction, Urban Owl

                I am not fond of the idea of folks bringing up personal business to support or attack arguments (though others have gone after me for what I do.)

                I'm not criticizing the diarist for opposing the increase in the minimum wage. From his perspective, that makes perfect sense.

                I am disagreeing with his analysis as presented.

            •  Of course it's a worker management issue. (7+ / 0-)

              Pay is always a worker management issue.  And who your workers are and why they're there is irrelevant to the issue of whether you're compensating them fairly for their time.

              I'm sorry if you're offended by the word overseer.  I did not intend it in the way I believe you might have interpreted it.  I just sense that you believe your employees see you as a friend rather than an employer.  If that is the case, I honestly think that might be a problem in your business in and of itself.  

              You and your employees are NOT equals.  They don't get to make any of the decisions about the business.  And for you to try and pretend you are equals in your own mind can really create some havoc in a business.  And I know.  I made the same kind of mistake early on in my own business and it bit me hard.  I wanted to be this benevolent, warmly regarded employer who lived my liberal ideas.  But no matter how hard you try to pretend your all equal, they ALL know the power and decision making is in your hands and your hands alone.  And they don't feel all warm and fuzzy over your efforts to pretend otherwise.  They might be nice, friendly people who enjoy your company and keep on working for low wages because they have so few other options available to them.  But that doesn't mean they view you quite as favorably as you imagine.  

              Not trying to depress you here, just trying to get you to see things a tad more realistically than you seem to be at the moment.

              "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

              by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:19:16 AM PST

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          •  No (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Shocko from Seattle

            I think entirely too much is being read into his comment!

    •  Shocko, maybe you ought to look (0+ / 0-)

      at this diary for more information about why small businesses are struggling.

      I was particularly intrigued by this line of reasoning:

      But the real thing we need? We need people back to work. So they can spend money in our store. Taxes are taxes. They're the price we pay for living in a tolerably free society where people don't have to suffer too much simply for being poor or stupid or incapable of taking care of themselves. For basic human decency.
      Replace "taxes" with "living wages" and the argument is remarkably similar.  Especially that part about "basic human decency."

      Oh wait!  The same diarist then went on to write:

      If people have jobs, they have money to spend, long as the job pays something like a living wage. No jobs, no small business. It's really simple.
      My emphasis.

      It's almost as if that diarist is saying that higher wages are good for business.

      Maybe you and that other diarist could have a discussion about what's happening with small business, and where the problems are.  Maybe that other diarist is even somewhere in this thread.

      "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

      by gharlane on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 11:46:12 PM PST

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