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View Diary: This time, Paul Krugman is wrong (136 comments)

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  •  I've been a bit harsh because I've been where (4+ / 0-)

    he is, recognize the mistakes he's making because I made them, and know what it takes to pull out of it.  And using low wages to sustain a business is not what it takes.  If he continues in the mindset he's in, his business is indeed doomed.  It takes honest speaking to move people out of their mindset.

    While he did indeed ackowledge that Krugman might be right in the macroeconomic sense, his title quite clearly stated that Krugman is wrong.  And he definitely seems to be arguing that proof that Krugman is wrong is provided by his own business.  

    He wrote the diary knowing he would be criticized, so I've assumed he's capable of handling that criticism.  It's not easy being a small business owner and anyone who's been doing it for as long as he has is, I suspect, quite capable of discussing an issue on an honest level rather than a superficial rah rah level.  I'm generally an overly compassionate person, until I see someone treating someone else unfairly.  I will admit that I saw much of what he wrote as a justification for his continued unfair treatment of his employees.  While I feel some level of compassion for him, I see it as a situation he has some control over, while his employees do not.  I also see it as one in which he's asking us for sympathy for having to treat his employees unfairly - which is never the actual situation.  So my compassion has quite definitely been tilted towards the employees more than him.

    "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

    by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:40:30 AM PST

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    •  So I read your comment (0+ / 0-)

      as acknowledging you failed to appreciate the nuance in the original diary, but even as you come to understand your own misreading you continue to justify your mistreatment of the author.

      That's sad.

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:03:27 AM PST

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      •  I have no idea at all what you're reading, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Catte Nappe, OldSoldier99

        because it doesn't seem to be what I'm writing.  No, I didn't acknowledge that I failed to appreciate any nuance - I pointed out that what I'd originally said was accurate, regardless of the snippet you quoted.  And I'm afraid your definite of mistreatment is just simply bizarre.  I appreciate that you are feeling bad for the diarist and that's fine.  But it still doesn't make any sense at all to begin inflating what's being said here as "mistreatment".  

        "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

        by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 01:04:09 PM PST

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        •  I asked for a discussion (0+ / 0-)

          no offense taken.

          But I do think we limit our possibilities by assuming that I'm either (a) an idiot who doesn't know how to run a business or (b) I'm a predatory owner who's bent on ripping off his employees.

          What if I'm neither of those things?

          What then?

          Small business is getting killed in this country. They are our natural allies, here on the left. This may not be the issue on which we will agree, but, please...let's have some flexibility.

          "Good Lord, how can the rich bear to die?" -- Nikos Kazantzakis

          by Shocko from Seattle on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 02:04:42 PM PST

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          •  Please, if you want a discussion, don't try (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OldSoldier99

            putting words in my mouth that I didn't put there.

            Lots of people who are far from idiots are not the best business people in the world.  And lots of people who are good business people have made some poor decisions or had unexpected events occur which has caused problems.  

            While I do think what you've said has indicated a tendency on your part to justify underpaying your employees, that's quite a far cry from your (b) choice.

            I mean, if you want to portray yourself as a picked upon victim, then your attempts at recreating what's been said makes sense.  But if you want to have a discussion, let's at least try to be honest about what's been said.

            "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

            by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 02:18:52 PM PST

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            •  so, paying minimum wage (0+ / 0-)

              is inherently a tendency to underpay employees?

              it's just not that simple

              "Good Lord, how can the rich bear to die?" -- Nikos Kazantzakis

              by Shocko from Seattle on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:37:53 PM PST

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              •  In one word, yes. When you're getting paid (0+ / 0-)

                a wage that, if working full time, would not pay for a single person's rent, food, gas, insurance, and other most basic living expenses, you're underpaid.  A person's time, without any work involved, is worth more than the current minimum wage.  So imo, if someone is paying minimum wage, they are by definition underpaying.  Which is why I strongly believe the minimum wage needs to be increased so that those who pay only the bare minimum the law requires won't be permitted to underpay their employees.

                Think about it honestly for a minute.  Would you be willing to work for the current minimum wage, regardless of how much you enjoyed your job?

                "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

                by gustynpip on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:49:55 PM PST

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      •  When you title your diary (0+ / 0-)

        "Krugman is wrong" and then your defenders are forced to point to a sentence in the diary itself that basically says "Well, I didn't really mean what I said in the title" (and the actual language of which suggests very thinly-veiled snark against ivory-tower pointy-headed intellectuals), then you deserve to be raked over the coals for the logical and evidentiary flaws in your argument.  That's all that's happening here.  It's not mistreatment, and it's not sad.  It's what you risk when you put up a diary with evidentiary and logical flaws with a misleading title.

        "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

        by gharlane on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 02:02:21 AM PST

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