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View Diary: Young man with down syndrome suffocated to death by police (197 comments)

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  •  Who created the "us vs. them" mentality? (11+ / 0-)

    Others have already pointed out, the police have NO responsibility for your safety, or to prevent crime. Sorry if this wake up call is shocking or disheartening, but it is true.

    The real question is, when, why and how did the actual (as opposed to legal) relationship between the police and public get to the point it is at? And what can we do to move it more towards what it should be?

    •  Gates and the LAPD. (14+ / 0-)

      He's the one who came up with the idea of the hardline, paramilitary police force engaging in a "war" against crime.  

      There used to be an old joke at LAPD: "In God we Trust; everyone else is a suspect."  

      Eventually, the warlike, us vs them rhetoric takes it toll.  The cops parade around in military gear looking intimidating and scary.  

      Is there any really good reason that SWAT uniforms are black?  The Germans learned way back in WW2 that the most effective camouflage for night operations was not black, it was the gray/green "tic-tac" pattern, something that the US Military's new "digital" uniforms are evolved from.  In the daytime it doesn't matter - they can see you no matter what you wear.

      No, the black is intimidation factor, nothing more.  In the 80s, the Las Vegas metro police used to call its SWAT team the "Nasty Boys."  That wasn't just a nickname either, it was official police PR strategy to refer to them that way.  Why the "Nasty Boys?"  Aren't they supposed to be the "Good" guys?

      I think if you want to find the root of the "Them vs Us" that so many police possess, you need to look first at the paramilitarization of the police, and for that you can thank Daryl Gates of the LAPD.  


    •  This so-called "wake up call" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight, coquiero, elmo

      seems to be the latest gun nut argument, and until I see proof, which I haven't, I'm putting it on the backburner with the anti-choice movement's "We're just trying to help poor little fluff-brained women stop themselves from doing something they'd regret."

      Jon Husted is a dick.

      by anastasia p on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 09:18:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Put it on any burner you like (0+ / 0-)

        I am pro gun control. This has nothing to do with gun control. This is an anti-hierarchy, anti-capitalist, hard left sort of thing, not a gun issue. We on the hard left, having seen the cops beat down our friends, and perhaps suffered such beatings ourselves, have little love for the pigs, in general. We also tend not to be gun nuts.

        But thanks for your fascinating guesswork and witty commentary, I'm sure you realize how much they are appreciated.

    •  Oh, what bollocks (0+ / 0-)
      Others have already pointed out, the police have NO responsibility for your safety, or to prevent crime.
      •  No legal responsibility (0+ / 0-)

        Not bollocks at all. Tell me, if the police fail to protect you, or if they fail to prevent a crime, do you have any legal recourse against them?

        No. You do not. Therefore, legally speaking, they have no actual, quantifiable responsibility to do so.

        If you believe my reasoning to be in error, I invite you to present your own counter argument. Hopefully it will be more cogent than "Oh, what bollocks" which as you may realize, is not an argument at all, but more of a pointless interjection.

        •  If I steal your wallet right in front of a cop (0+ / 0-)

          and he or she does nothing, you can bet anything you want the cop will be fired. That's not the same question as whether you can sue the city as the cop's employer for monetary damages for failure to prevent the theft.

          You're confusing two concepts.

          •  You think so? (0+ / 0-)

            I really doubt the cop would be fired. Can you provide an example of this happening? Because I've watched cops break the law themselves, and do nothing but chuckle at that fact when it is brought to their attention. In my experience, it's sort of hard for cops to get fired just on the word of a civilian.

            I'm guessing that you don't have any actual examples you can point to of a cop being fired for not pursuing a criminal. I'm guessing that what you are doing here is what is known as "wishful thinking." Like, if you admitted to yourself that what I am saying might be true, then you'd have to admit that we're all pretty fucked, and that this "free society" we live in is just a thin veneer over a violent,  authoritarian oligarchy.

            •  Google search took ...30 seconds (0+ / 0-)


              Care for more examples? Or have you finished your own guessing games for the moment?

              •  What a poor and irrelevant example (0+ / 0-)

                They were fired for stealing. They claimed to be working, to be going on calls, but were not. Show me what you claimed: officer sees a crime, decides not to pursue, and is fired for it.

                I've worked for state government, and time theft is one of the few things they will actually go after a person for.

                Total fail. Care to try again?


                •  Excuse me? (0+ / 0-)

                  They were fired for not doing their jobs (responding to calls).

                  I think you and I both know what the "total fail" here involves.  

                  •  Two very different things (0+ / 0-)

                    They were goofing off! "Going on calls" is not "responding to a crime" and you know it. They could have gone, seen some shit go down, said, "meh," then went back to the station, filed a report, and not been disciplined.

                    I refuse to argue with someone who won't argue in good faith, though, so we are done here. And I shall remember what sort of person you are, so I don't waste my time with you in the future. Good day, sir.

                    •  Are you seriously trying to argue (0+ / 0-)

                      that responding to a call for police is not "responding to a crime?" Wow. If you can be fired for not even showing up at the crime scene, in what universe would you not be fired for showing up and not doing anything?

                      These officers were fired for "dereliction of duty." Yep. See that word there? Duty.

                      Let's take a look at what one state's laws define as dereliction of duty.

                      (2) Fail to prevent or halt the commission of an offense or to apprehend an offender, when it is in the law enforcement officer’s power to do so alone or with available assistance.

                      Are you going to persist in arguing that police have no duty to, essentially, do their jobs?

                      Yeah, we're done here because you're wrong and you know it.

                      •  Okay. That is actually relevant. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        Good job. Much better than your previous attempt. I remove my accusation of arguing in bad faith. You have shown that, at least on the books, police have a duty to prevent crime and apprehend those who commit it.

                        But, has it been applied? That is the real question. I will argue that the police, in many places, act in gross dereliction of duty and get away with it regularly.

                        •  Why do you suppose those officers in Miami (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          were fired if not for "dereliction of duty?"

                          Look, I get that you don't like police, ok? But they're not all bad people out to do everything possible to aid criminals and harass innnocent citizenry.

                          And, yes, there are bad cops who get away with not doing their jobs. No system to police the police is perfect or anything even close to it. We tend to hear about those bad apples more because "Cop does job!" doesn't make it into the newspapers, even in the metro section.

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