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View Diary: Rand Paul: Libertarian or Hypocrite? (50 comments)

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  •  There are many appropriate adjectives (10+ / 0-)

    one might use to describe Rand Paul.

    "Hypocrite" is one of the kinder ones.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    Who is twigg?

    by twigg on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:49:20 PM PST

    •  I agree.. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jennyp, denig

      But for the sake of decency I digress...

    •  You wouldn't be posting this... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      qofdisks

      ...if Rand Paul's message didn't resonate with those of us who value civil liberties and non-aggressive foreign policy above all other considerations.

      Perhaps you would have no need to post such diaries if Obama and other Democrats had more respect for such concepts.

      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

      by Sparhawk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:52:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yau addressing me? (0+ / 0-)

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        Who is twigg?

        by twigg on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 03:56:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Your idea of civil liberties is that business (6+ / 0-)

        owners should be able to refuse to serve African American customers, that business owners should be able to impose their religious beliefs on their employees, and that the government should control reproductive rights?

        “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

        by ahumbleopinion on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 04:16:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm hoping I won't have to make a choice... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          qofdisks

          ...if the deal also includes a sacrosanct 4th Amendment, reduction in foreign adventurism, and massive defunding of the wars on drugs and terrorism.

          Please don't make me choose.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 04:30:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skrekk, Ditch Mitch KY, S F Hippie

        Would not be posting this if Rand Paul was not a hypocrite. If you think that "civil liberties" are corporations being able to prey at will upon the rest of us I feel sorry for you.

        As far as Obama and "other Democrats" most of them are moderate and not radical, anti-government that works for the people it represents zealots.

        I have graced you with a response more than you deserved.

      •  Ummmm......Rand Paul opposes the civil rights (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RDemocrat, Fishtroller01, S F Hippie

        of gay Americans.     He's a bigot just like his father.

        Apparently his version of civil liberties is "I've got mine, so screw you!"

        •  That cat's out of the bag (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jplanner, qofdisks, RDemocrat, soros

          By 2016 being anti-gay-marriage will be an unthinkable political position.

          Like I said, just make the Democratic nominee anti-drug war and anti-terrorism war and pro-civil liberties and this entire problem goes away. Fortunately, it has been an easy choice for the last few elections, if only because Romney was known to be worse than Obama in this regard, as awful as Obama has been.

          Don't make 2016 a difficult choice. I will vote for the better candidate in this regard. Always.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 04:54:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So you forgive him for being an antigay bigot ... (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MKHector, skrekk, RDemocrat, Fishtroller01

            ... because the rest of us are not?  Or something?  

            Both Pauls are going to stick to their bigoted ways because that is what libertarianism means to them.  Libertarianism simply means that you can conjure an immensely self-satisfying intellectual rationalization for your own out-dated, archaic beliefs.  Liberalism is libertarianism in practice and sometimes it is not ideologically pure.  

            If you are anti-drug war, anti-WarOnTerror and pro-civil liberties then you are a liberal.  Welcome.

            Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

            by Terrapin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:07:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  umm, are you saying (0+ / 0-)
              If you are anti-drug war, anti-WarOnTerror and pro-civil liberties then you are a liberal
              that most of the Democratic Party, including its titular leader, is not liberal? ;-))
              •  That is precisely what I am saying. (0+ / 0-)

                But I do not need him or the rest of the Party to approach Liberal purity in order for me to support him/them.

                My post was a response to a self-described 'libertarian' - a political approach for which I have little patience.

                Please do not be alarmed. We are about to engage... the nozzle.

                by Terrapin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 02:51:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  "..... will be an unthinkable political position." (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RDemocrat, corvo, S F Hippie

            Kind of like how being opposed to mixed-race marriage is an unthinkable political position today, and quite rightly so.

            Teabaggers like Rand Paul still think they deserve special rights and privileges while certain other Americans should be 2nd-class citizens..........but they have yet to figure out why so few people are voting for them.     Someone who in the 21st century still can't understand that all Americans deserve the same rights isn't worth your vote.

            Seriously, you wouldn't think that equal protection of the law is all that complicated to figure out or that difficult to support.

            •  Re (0+ / 0-)
              Seriously, you wouldn't think that equal protection of the law is all that complicated to figure out or that difficult to support.
              Tell that to drone strike targets in Yemen that never got a trial.

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 06:48:56 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  That is what makes him a hypocrit. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skrekk, RDemocrat

          He is not a Libertarian.

        •  "I've got mine, so screw you" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skrekk

          is libertarian "philosophy" in a nutshell.

          This much said, Rand is much less of a pretend-libertarian than his daddy.  Both are ultimately reliable Rethugs, and Rand plays much less at libertarianism, which is kind of refreshing actually.

      •  he's more than that though (5+ / 0-)

        the man is arrogant and has been disrespectful to President Obama.
        Did you see him in HRC's Benghazi hearings?
        He was really a jerk. He's not like his father.

        They man, personally, is in it for himself --at least it really seems that way.

        I hope you and others don't blind yourself to the social policy negatives that RP stands for. You can care about civil liberties and non-agressive foreign policy and NOT be a Republican. And of course, if you are a REpublican enough to like someone like Rand Paul it's surprising you are here anyway.

        Again not because of his Libertarianism. There is more to him than that.

        He makes my skin crawl in a way his father does not.

        •  Re (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          qofdisks, soros
          the man is arrogant and has been disrespectful to President Obama.
          Mother Mary, he was disrespectful! Quick, rush and put all the fine china away!
          I hope you and others don't blind yourself to the social policy negatives that RP stands for. You can care about civil liberties and non-agressive foreign policy and NOT be a Republican. And of course, if you are a REpublican enough to like someone like Rand Paul it's surprising you are here anyway.
          Yeah, so, in 2012 if I wanted civil liberties and non-aggressive foreign policy who exactly did I vote for? There is only lunatic Romney, and unacceptable-but-can-keep-it-together Obama.

          I don't want to have to decide whether my distaste for drone strikes and rampant Fourth Amendment violations should trump my pro-choice and anti-religious-insanity positions. I want a candidate that gives me all or most of what I want in these regards (e.g. is a social and civil libertarian).

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 05:51:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hope you don't have to decide that (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skrekk, RDemocrat, S F Hippie

            but honestly I'm tired of the mocking tones on Kos. Because there is not voice tone or body language in writing you can't tell much about it.
            He was an asshole in my estimation, to be more clear and blunt. Not just in that hearing. I am sure however that there are other libertarians that will be more decent.

            •  Fair enough (0+ / 0-)

              We will see, I guess.

              I was going to write that I didn't mean to mock, but I sort of did, so sorry about that. When Bush was President, no one around here gave a crap about 'respect', and neither did I. I'm just keeping it even-handed. The President is an employee of all of us, and while there is something to be said for professionalism, I don't think he deserves any particular degree of respect, more than anyone else, anyway. Many times 'respect the office' is a rallying cry for shutting down criticism (not saying that's true in your case).

              I understand that people around here on occasion consider me conservative, but often it is merely holding Obama to the same standards to which I've held President Bush.

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 07:38:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I wasn't around here for Bush (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GAS

                and there were reasons we lost respect for him...such as trumping up a phony war. Tea party people on the other hand starting their demonstrations against Obama the "Kenyan socialist fascist" BEFORE he even was innaugarated.
                He was "other" to them and not to be trusted. Much of it was veiled racism IMO.
                Also, I don' t like representatives of our government outwardly being disrespectful to a President. I don't recall that even when Bush lied to Congress about his reasons for going to war. They need to put on a facade of respect at least. And if my memory is correct, Democrats mostly did.

                So in a way, I mind your mocking or disrespecting the President because you are angry at somethng he did a lot less than someone in the US SENATE(!) not being 'Senatorial" and respectful even if he disagrees with action or policy.
                Finally...so many people respond like you with the automatic mocking thing if someone just disagrees even if the are respectful. I don't know why you have to. I don't disrespect your opinion. I don't even think we necessarily disagree entirely in a black and white way. I just do not like Rand Paul and it has little to do with him being a Libertarian.

              •  Sparhawk.. gimme a break! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                corvo

                You are seriously saying that you might be forced to choose Rand Paul?  This is a guy who thought it was appropriate to waste the taxpayers money using a Senate hearing to complain about the toilets in his DC townhome.  This is a guy who decided to start his own board of opthamology and staff it with family members. This is a guy who has the full backing of the private militias in the south (so does his Dad) and who gave a speech for a rally sponsored by the Constitution Party- a group that advocates changing the Constitution to reflect "biblical values" and "Jesus Christ".  

                I think you need to do some homework.

        •  I.. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GAS, S F Hippie, vet

          Had written another diary about Rand Paul and included the arrogant, disrespectful grilling of Hillary.

          As a Kentuckian I owe it to our country and humanity in general to try and vote this guy out of the Senate, much less the White House.

          His view of our country as a whole is dangerous.

    •  Here's one...he's a louse! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ditch Mitch KY, skrekk

      I couldnt' resist
      I've seen the disrespectful and disparaging ways he's talked about our President.
      In that way, he is not his father's son..who has some decency interpersonally.

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