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View Diary: Walker drops bomb #2, this time on Wisconsin's private sector unions (165 comments)

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  •  I understand your concern. (3+ / 0-)

    But I seem to recall people who "know" your state, making excuse after excuse for why the national party shouldn't dump money in.  I remember people making excuse after excuse as to why pOTuS should go back on his pledge of getting his marching shoes.  I don't recall people putting up a stink when actions were being taken that  didn't have a laser focus on midterms in a census year.  

    So while it may make you feel better, I still don't think anyone is absolved.  I can understand this rhetoric from someone in Mississippi or Wyoming. But you guys somehow get folks out for Obama, but go for Walker.

    I don't really see anything out of that.  Money could have been available to contest.  The decision was made to go it alone.  Wish it was different, but it isn't like every chance wasn't given to elect someone that had labor front and center.   Then, when they break their promises, we are surprised.

    Sorry.  Unless they stole votes, I am not sure there is anything to do except expose them.  That isn't to denigrate the hard work people put in...but clearly something isn't going right.  

    How can it be fixed.   It's introspection a time.

    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

    by justmy2 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 05:07:12 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Will you make up your mind? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Capt Crunch, Creosote, elwior, 3goldens

      You blamed Wisconsin for it but now you admit that it was the fact that the national Dems didn't pour in the support that the national Repubs did.  Make up your mind - are you blaming Wisconsin or the national Dems who refused to help when Wisconsin Dems asked for the help?

      •  It is the national Dems who are responsible for (9+ / 0-)

        the 2010 debacle in Wis. and every other state where the repugs captured swing state legislatures and governorships. Obama made terrible picks for his administration and the Wall St ass kissing Union busting Rahm Emanuel was the worst. These conservadems killed off Obama's buzz by partying like it was 1994. And they got the same results. They put Dean out to pasture after he won 3 election cycles and all of Rahm's blu dogs got their mangy asses  kicked by real repugs.

        I don't begrudge one penny I sent to Wisconsin. You Badgers are fighting back as hard as you can against a well funded billionaire invasion. Just like grass root Dems are in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, and Pennsylvania. We are all trying to clean up the mess the conservadems Kane and Rahm made of a midterm in a census year.

        Obama would not have carried Wisconsin or any of these other states if the voters were happy with the repugs. These same voters stayed home in 2010 because Obama and his team mismanaged the victory we gave them.

        If all that can be done is to keep repugs out of governorships  and other statewide offices for the next ten years in these states that's what we need to do.

        You done good Badgers!

        •  Recall wasn't in 2010 (0+ / 0-)

          And wis unions and party rejected national support.  Or at a minimum, played ball.

          It was an important beachhead.  And the Dem party at the local and national level failed miserably, in my opinion because they still bought the conservative lines about unions, used weasel words and ran from a nationalized battle.

          "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

          by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 04:26:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No they didn't. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mark E Andersen, 3goldens, Chinton

            Please talk about the real world and stop lying.

          •  The midterm was in 2010 & that's the debacle (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            3goldens

            that caused Walker's election and the recall.

            Rahm & Tim Kane were the architects of the midwest swing state slaughter. Rahm as CoS, and Obama's other miserable staffing picks killed Obama's buzz and, like Clinton's 94 midterm, disappointed Dem leaning voters stayed home in droves.

            Wisconsin and the other states conservadem blundering threw away in 2010 all elected Obama & Dem senators 2012. They couldn't crack the gerrymanders and elect Dem congress critters or state legislations. But if you look at the numbers Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, & Pennsylvanian voters really tried too.

            The fight the Badgers & Buckeyes put up needs to be respected and copied, even it the Badgers came up short. They are rolling rocks up a very steep hill & should be supported and praised, not blamed for a circumstance not of their own making.

      •  I am blaming both (0+ / 0-)

        Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

        Both accepted the local only strategy with minimal offline OFA support with Republicans pouring money into the state.

        Poor politics.  And it was easy too see in real time and I said so.   My main interest was not just Wis, it was the principal.  

        There is no inconsistency in my statements. None at all.

        "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

        by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 04:24:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  False. (3+ / 0-)
          Both accepted the local only strategy with minimal offline OFA support with Republicans pouring money into the state.
          Yeah that would have been a bad idea.  Which is why it's a good thing that only happened in your fantasy world and not in reality.  

          The failure was down to two basic things: 1 - far less money for Dems to put rebuttal ads on the air, which has more to do with who the corporate backers are for republicans than for your false calims about the amount of effort put in by democrats, and 2 - if there was a tactical error it was when dems decided not to go negative in the ads.  The few Dem ads that did get on the air were far too often geared to say "here's why Tom Berrett is good" instead of "here's why Scott Walker is bad".  That might be proper advice in a normal election, but NOT in a recall, where saying your candidate is better is not sufficient - you must show why the incumbent isn't just the worse choice of the two but is in fact so utterly bad that it warrants the drastic measure of kicking him out prematurely.

          Oh, and yes there's plenty of inconsistency in your statements.

          •  You can make all the assertions that you one (0+ / 0-)

            and like I said, I know it hurts.  But the record is there.  National Dems wanted no part of it.  And Wisconsin Dems only started asking for help when things started looking grim.

            The time to ask wasn't at the end.  It was at the beginning.  And this was just another example of poor strategy in fear of who knows what at the time.
            Yes, when things started looking bad, the recriminations began.  We need DNC help.  I agreed.  But the difference was I said it from day one, when the protests started.   The in April/May, when polling was working, the calls for help came in.

            It is all out there.  I was here, railing against national dems and people saying they wanted them out, during the actual session when they left the state, during the petition drive, and the recall.  Actually, lost a "dkos" friend because I so aggressive about why this needed to be nationalized. So now to hear people tell me that I am wrong for basically stating the same thing I said then and telling me it didn't happen, just seems odd.

            "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

            by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 07:21:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Liar. (0+ / 0-)

              Covering up your earlier lies by telling more of them doesn't help your case.  And lay off the "I know it hurts" condescending bullshit.  The requests for national help started right away despite your willingness to lie about this fact.

    •  You seem to recall? You mean you dream.. (3+ / 0-)

      ...about things that never happened.
      How many times do people have to prove to you that you are wrong?
      When will it sink in?
      The Wisconsin Dems were shouting for money form the national Dems. It was in the papers, on the radio and here in KOS.
      On top of that people have answered your post and proven you wrong.
      Hey - can you hear that? It's the real world.
      Yeah the real world has been knocking at your door.
      Are you going to open up and let the real world in?
      Or are you going to continue to 'seem to recall' your fantasy world?
      Knock.
      Knock.
      Knock.

      •  You could not be more wrong. (0+ / 0-)

        I hope you realize I have an archive full of comments and links of people telling me why it was a bad idea for national help to come in.   Your story may be your personal experience, but it is not representative of the messaging and position at the time.

        Don't rewrite history.   For you to say people were screaming, I am yet to see anyone provide any evidence.  Yes, at the last minute, activists wanted DWS to get on board.  But that was after months of saying we got this and a WH/national apparatus running scared from a multi state fight...saying it was a state issue.

        "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

        by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 04:30:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You are fantasizing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens
          I hope you realize I have an archive full of comments and links of people telling me why it was a bad idea for national help to come in.
          Ahhhh, well, THAT makes all the difference.
          Those magic hidden articles you have yet to produce.
          And the one article you did produce was actually about union organizing and not about the Democrats in Wisconsin.
          But that's OK - you've got a whole slew of magic misunderstood articles.
          Whoa Daddy!

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