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View Diary: Walker drops bomb #2, this time on Wisconsin's private sector unions (165 comments)

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  •  No (3+ / 0-)
    We have a different take.  I wouldn't say we all deserverd the Reagan years.  But that was the will of the people.
    Liar.  That was the will of some of the people.  That is the same error you make in blaming all of Wisconsin.  That is the crux of your error and it is why you get argument over this.  When you pretend local democrats weren't mobilized, you are lying.  In a very large way.  When you pretend the local democrats didn't ask for national help, you are lying.  They asked for, and did not get, national help from the party.  If you don't like it when people push back against what you are claiming there's an easy solution - don't lie about them in the first place.  Especially when those people you are lying about are part of this website and can read what you're falsely claiming about them.
    •  Liar....interesting choice of words (0+ / 0-)

      Sorry...will of the people is exactly what it is when you live in a democracy.  Adding the word some, may make you feel better, but it doesn't change a thing.

      You are making the argument Republicans are making right now. Obama only got 51% so the people haven't spoken.  Nonsense.  If we are going to based policy on % of vote, well we are really screwed.

      And creating strawmen won't help

      When you pretend local democrats weren't mobilized, you are lying.  
      You did not read that in anything I wrote. As a matter of fact, my point was that WAS THE PLAN.

      You can be mad.  You should be. But as they say.  Truth hurts.

      And when you say people asked for national help, it simply isn't true.  And I have provided the links.   Another example of a local person during the debate.

      This is why we don't want national and out-of-state politicians to muck this up, so it's better that Obama stay out of it.
      You can choose to be believe the record or your memory.

      "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

      by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 07:07:04 AM PST

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      •  Apparently the truth is hurting you (1+ / 0-)
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        Capt Crunch

        so badly, justmy2, that you are "choosing to believe the record of your memory".  People in WI DID ask for national help.  It's the truth.  And the national Dems chose to step back from WI and to say nothing and do nothing.  If not for Ed Schultz, the WI situatio would never have been known at the national level.  If nothing else, MONEY from the national Dems would have helped, but it was left to the unions and the grassroots to do so and we could never match the outside money from billionaire conservatives that poured into this state.  People here have tried over and over again to explain the reality of the situation here and you have refused to listen to them because you have your own agenda.  You've made this diary about you and how you knew what needed to be done but no one listened to you and now, two YEARS after this battle was over, you've come out to even the score and make yourself feel better.  Shame on you.  What a petty, mean, vile thing you've done.  

        "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more." - from the prophet Jeremiah

        by 3goldens on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 10:40:08 AM PST

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        •  They asked for help when it was too late. (0+ / 0-)

          I am not trying to settle any scores with anyone.  I have no need to.

          I am not pointing out based on memory.  I have provided links and I went back and read the relevant diaries.

          I do not have any doubt based on my recollection and the record, that from the protests through the petition drive to the early recall process...the entire them was from the outside -this is a state thing (AKA as an excuse for Obama to go back on his promise to support union in a collective bargaining fight) and inside unions and the party telling people over and over again that this is a local issue, and the President would hurt the cause.  I know because the diaries were full of pushback.

          My intent isn't to hurt anyone's feelings.  It is to make the point that the idea that 1. the collective bargaining fight should be fought on a state by state level is dead wrong...and 2. regardless of my personal strategic beliefs or anyone else... the citizens of Wisconsin elected Scott Walker twice.  Twice.  In a state where the same electorate voted for Obama twice.   The people spoke, and Walker is doing not only what he said he would do, he is doing what people ALREADY SAW HIM DO.

          I am not sure why that is so hard on people.  Instead of taking offense, I suggest taking action.  And start by making sure progressives and unions never "fall in line" again just because the WH "says so".

          Again, that isn't about my feelings.  It is about the issues that have held all of us back from progress.

          And I don't take you statement lightly.  I know you are well meaning.  So it is important that I responded, but I stand by my statements.   There was a strategic decision to make this grassroots. It didn't work.   And it is an important lesson to learn.

          "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

          by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 12:09:25 PM PST

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        •  And btw-a lot of the push back from Wisconsin (0+ / 0-)

          was based on the assumption the National participation in Feingolds election hurt Russ.  So there seemed to be a decision to try to keep the President and national Dems out of the picture.

          "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

          by justmy2 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 12:26:55 PM PST

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